161: Ulrich Dempfle, CEO & Co-founder of CAROL BIKE: 5 Min Workout To Boost Sleep, V02 Max, Lower HR & Support HRV?!


Ulrich Dempfle, CEO and co-founder of CAROL, built on his background in mechanical engineering to develop the world’s only Reduced Exertion HIIT (REHIT) bike, alongside leading exercise researchers. 

Ulrich heads up all aspects of product development at CAROL—from data science to software and hardware. Making him the perfect person to talk you through the science and technology behind CAROL’s signature workout.

In this episode, we discuss:


The Carol Bike Approach

🚴 Scientific Breakthrough: Inside the Carol Bike Method

🚴 Mastering Glucose: Carol Bike's Impact on Blood Sugar

🚴 The Carol Advantage, Protocols and Transformative Benefits

🚴 Integrating Carol Bike into Your Routine

🚴 Consistency Counts

🚴 Harnessing Wearables for Progress

🚴 Transforming Fitness and Sleep Monitoring

🚴 Comparison to traditional cardio workout

🚴 Prioritizing Health in Busy Lives

🚴 Exercise for Mind and Body

🚴  What can we learn from Ulrich’s sleep-night habits?   

🚴 Risk-Free Exploration: The Carol Bike Trial Experience

🚴 Partners in Progress: Collaborating for Health Optimization:   

🚴 Check-out  Carol Bike and Enjoy $100 OFF  using code SLEEPISASKILL

🚴 And more!

🧠 If you “Can’t Turn Your Brain Off” at night…


🧘 Need help meditating /HRV?! Check out my new favorite tool that you literally hold in your hand and feel it breathe with you, like a baby bird 🐤 Moonbird  Code: SLEEPISASKILL

🛌 Can't afford a cooling mattress pad?
Let me introduce you to Muslin Comfort's oversized blankets—Oprah-approved luxury that keeps your temperature just right, all year long. Perfect for those who seek the cool side of the pillow, but not the price tag of high-end cooling bedding. Code: SLEEPISASKILL **20% OFF

🚴 The Biohacker’s Bike — Need a no-excuses, 5-minute workout (!) that's exceptionally effective for managing glucose levels and building sleep pressure—outperforming others in its category for quick fitness results?! The Carol Bike has become my go-to. Code: SLEEPISASKILL **$100 OFF



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The information contained on this podcast, our website, newsletter, and the resources available for download are not intended as, and shall not be understood or construed as, medical or health advice. The information contained on these platforms is not a substitute for medical or health advice from a professional who is aware of the facts and circumstances of your individual situation.

Mentioned Resources

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Welcome to the Sleep as a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as a Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world thinks about sleep.

Each week I'll be interviewing world class. experts ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keep it.

Keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health. And by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before. 

Welcome to the sleep is a skill podcast. Our guest today is. Ulrich Demfle, CEO and co founder of Carole Bikes. Now, why are we talking about Carole Bike on a podcast around sleep optimization? Well, a little quick personal share. I recently partnered up with Carole Bike, and they did send me over a Carole Bike to use myself, and it has been blowing my mind.

It is an A. I.  Smart bike and get this in five minutes, you are getting an equivalent workout of around 45 minutes and five minutes time. How could that possibly be? Well, we're going to get into all the specifics of that and why would that matter around Sleep around our goals with sleep optimization.

Well, it turns out that exercise and movement is a chronically foregone overlooked component of how you are going to up level your results with your sleep. Not only with the ability to bolster your sleep pressure by the time you get into bed so that you can fall asleep with more ease, but also spleeds into the quality of that sleep, as well as.

Instances of wake ups, which are one of the more popular reasons that people come our way to sleep as a skills are so frustrated with wake ups. Well, what are some of the reasons that you might be having wake ups besides sleep disorders, which are crucial and always get those checked out, please PSA  forever.

You want to make sure that you are checking in with your blood sugar management. Again, different studies point to anywhere from 88 to 92 percent of Americans having some form of metabolic dysfunction. And if that's the case, what is happening with your glucose and insulin throughout the course of the day is also getting mirrored.

in your nights. And when you're crashing in the wee hours of the morning, you can expect that is very likely for you to have wake ups on top of those. So what's a way to reverse engineer and help to support stabilizing that glucose moving your body. But here's the problem. So many of us are so busy. I know I'm one of those people and it's hard to fit in all of these things.

We want to get our morning sunlight. We want to get sunlight throughout the day. We want to wind down sufficiently. Where do you fit in exercise and all of these things that will support your sleep? Well, that is one of the reasons why I'm so excited about Carol bike to give you a five minute workout.

And I actually just did an onboarding call with one of their reps, and we went over some of the things that you might be able to expect. It was a really cool backstory, just as a personal share of how that rep had dropped his. Nighttime resting heart rate on his aura ring around  18 beats per minute. As far as his heart rate was concerned by his utilization of Carol bike.

So many people come our way using the aura ring and some of the pain points that they have are that they're having too high of a heart rate throughout the course of the night Their HRV is not where they want it to be. And the truth of it is, is that a lot of our research of how to influence those numbers really go back to simply moving your body.

So we're going to get into all that and more, including things like VO two max and why you need to know about that for improving your sleep. The list is endless, but first a little bit more about our guests. Ulrich heads up all aspects of sleep. of product development at Carol from data science to software and hardware, making him the perfect person to talk you through the science and technology behind Carol's signature workout.

So we're going to get into all that and so much more. And because they are a new sponsor, which I'm so excited about, They have hooked us up with a code. It is sleep is a skill. If you are interested in testing this out and they give you 90 days to figure out if you like it, if you don't like it, if you don't like it, they will actually arrange for someone to come and pick it up for you.

So it's really no risk to test out this latest and greatest in AI tech as it applies to your exercise habits. So without further ado, let's jump into the podcast, but first a few words from our sponsors.  If you're listening to this podcast, you're likely looking to improve your sleep. And one of the first places that many people begin when they talk to me about sleep is they want to know what's the supplement I can take.

Well, I got to say, I honestly don't take that many supplements nowadays for my sleep. And I'm very grateful for that. A lot of things you can do for free. However, one of the supplements that I do consistently take and have taken for ages is magnesium, specifically magnesium breakthrough. It's an all natural supplement that helps you reduce fatigue and sleep more peacefully.

It even strengthens muscle and improves your heart and brain function. So while most magnesium supplements aren't full spectrum, magnesium breakthrough is the only magnesium supplement on the market that contains the optimal ratio of all three. All seven essential types of magnesium. So imagine having the strength and energy to get out of bed every morning and face the day boldly, courageously to be able to show up as your best self and keep that energy up throughout the day and into the night.

So if you want to give it a try, go to bio optimizers. com forward slash sleep is a skill and you can use the code sleep is a skill to get. Gifts with purchase up to two travel size bottles of magnesium breakthrough. So you want to act fast on this. It's a limited time offer. Again, go to buy optimizers.

com forward slash sleep is a skill, and I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised by the results.  Today, I'm very excited to introduce you to Moonbird, a pioneering biofeedback device that's revolutionizing the way we approach sleep. And they have just sponsored sleep as a skill. So in the realm of sleep science, stress management is always key.

And Moonbird leverages the science of heart rate variability or HRV, which, you know, we're talking about all the time on this podcast and it leverages it in a way to combat sleep disturbances caused by by stress. This innovative device isn't just for relaxation. It's a tool to activate your body's natural sleep mechanism.

So according to a significant study in psychophysiology in 2015,  paced breathing, which is facilitated by something like Moonbird was found to significantly increase vagal activity. This directly impacts your parasympathetic system. System leading to improve sleep quality. It's about making tangible physiological changes for better sleep.

Now, moon Bird goes beyond being just a sleep aid. It's a scientifically grounded tool for managing stress and achieving deeper, more restorative sleep. Now, for listeners who wanna trans. form their sleep patterns. Moonbird combines cutting edge technology with proven scientific strategies. So you can visit moonbird.

life and use the code sleep as a skill for a special discount. And just a quick aside, I am using my Moonbird every single day, and it's made a profound difference in how I'm managing my stress and improving my own ability to manage my health and wellbeing through heart rate variability technology.  And welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast.

I am so excited for our guest today. Why? Because we talk about a lot of different things on this podcast of different avenues to support your sleep, and I do not believe we've done our due diligence in Ways that we can really maximize effective and hopefully achievable or out of the ordinary because this is really going to be an out of the ordinary look at exercise, smart, intelligent ways that we can really maximize our results, maximize our time spent moving our body.

And how does that relate to our sleep? Well, How much time do you have? Because there are so many ways that exercise is going to play a role in your sleep results and also your results on your wearable data. So stay tuned for all that. So thank you so much for taking the time to be here, Ulrich. It just means the world.

I know you're Zooming in from London and you got a busy schedule. So thanks so much for making the time. 

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. 

Oh, amazing. Well, so maybe we can start at the beginning to give more context of What is this kind of novel and out of the box approach to exercise and movement?

So one of our intersections at Sleep is a Skill is really looking at technology, accountability, and behavioral change to influence sleep results. So from a technology perspective, you've been at the helm of this kind of revolutionary product, and I wonder if you can share a bit about that, how it came to be, and why it is noteworthy.

Yeah, sure. Sure. So we've developed caro bike, which is the smartest and most effective exercise bike. And it's been scientifically proven to give you double the health and fitness benefits in 90 percent less time compared to regular cardio. It has simple AI personalized workouts that are pretty much suitable for any age and fitness levels that can be done in as little as five minutes. 

And you only have to work hard for two 20 second sprints. And that makes it a very sustainable and habit forming way to, to build like an exercise routine.  

Absolutely. So maybe we can break that down a little bit more as to how in the world is it able to achieve those results in such a short period of time and be from a, even a research perspective, having that validation.

How can that be possible? Tell us more. Yeah, 

sure. Sure. So the carol bike uses, um, a form of workout that's called re hit. It's reduced exertion, high intensity interval training. And most people will be familiar with HIT. And so HIT is a HIT program last typically 20 to 30 minutes is very effective. So there's no doubts about the effectiveness of it, but it is very hard for people to actually do it. 

And REHIT, so reduced exertion HIT was developed by scientists looking for  The shortest and most effective and most accessible way to exercise. And so we had research has shown that rehab is the fastest way to get fit.  And so a rehab session would consist of a very gentle warm up up to two minutes.

Then a 20 second sprint where  the secret is really to go all out to push to your limits, but it's very short and so momentarily for 20 seconds, you go to maximum intensity,  then you have a light recovery, very, very light, a second sprint, 20 seconds, and then a cool down. And so where HIT offers.  High intensity training, rehab offers maximum intensity training.

So you push your body to new limits, but you only do it for a very, very short period of time. And that creates a very different and very powerful training stimulus.  and the,  trigger for your physiological adaptation is just very different compared to longer steady state cardio.  And that makes it so, uh, effective and quite unlike any other type of cardio. 

Yeah, I have had the honor and privilege to have a carol bike delivered recently. And so I'm still new to the concept of having such a short and effective and powerful workout. It's been so cool. So I'm really grateful because the experience has been one where I can fit this in, in between My, you know, what feels like millions of zoom calls or I've actually done some of these while listening to a quick podcast.

I mean, literally just a snippet of some of these things, but it just feels very bite size and achievable. And one of the things that, you know, That has been noteworthy for me is I speak to a lot of people around managing their blood sugar because why? Well, if we're looking to improve our sleep results, that instability in glucose throughout the course of the day, we know often shows up in our sleep results and can be part of the source point for wake ups that annoying, you know, 3am, 4am wake up of that crash of our glucose and that stress response.

And now we're up. Now. What's been so great is I've been adding in more carbs into my diet than I had before. And so with that, I've been finding more variability in the spiking and then the crashing. So then having Carol at my ready has been amazing to help manage that. And that's just like one example.

So why might that be so effective for management of glucose? 

So, yes, there's a very clear and direct link and it, uh, goes to, uh, really the, the reason why you can achieve such fantastic results in so short time and with only two 20 second sprints. So maybe I just quickly explain the, the mechanism. And so, um, In those very, very short sprints, we simulate something like a fight or flight situation, like where you have to, uh, fight for your life or run for your life.

And  the, um, your energy demand in your muscles, uh, spikes very, very quickly. dramatically and goes from rest up by a factor of about 100. So the, the energy requirement, the energy demand goes up by a factor of a hundred.  Your muscles would usually utilize either, uh, sugar or fat from the bloodstream.

That's your normal preferred way of operating.  When you increase the energy demand so rapidly, you force the muscle  to burn Muscular glycogen. So glycogen is a storage form of sugar that's locally stored. And that can be accessed very, very quickly.  Um, and with those 222nd  sprints, we managed to deplete about, um, 25 to 30 percent of the glycogen stores in your muscles. 

And the reason for that is, uh, the, your body perceives just this massive spike in energy demand and it mobilizes loads and loads of glycogen, it's a rather large molecule, um, and it mobilizes a lot more than it actually needs. So the sprints are so short that you burn quite little of it, but the body gets ready. 

And. With the mobilization certain signaling molecules get released. So there's a molecule called AMPK that's bound to the glycogen that gets released, which then in turn triggers other important signaling molecules like PGC1 alpha, which regulates mitochondrial biogenesis. And that triggers a host of, um, adaptation that, that makes you just fitter and stronger.

So it increases your ability to, to burn oxygen. That's, that's what mitochondria are for.  Now, at the same time, your body really doesn't like it. If Your, um, energy, your emergency energy stores are depleted and it will want to refill those with, with glycogen as quickly as possible. Um, and that, uh, process is regulated by insulin and it improves your insulin sensitivity.

And therefore the two main benefits of, Or the headline benefits is really increased cardiovascular fitness and improved metabolic health. And that's largely driven by improved insulin sensitivity and your ability to regulate your sugar household and to maintain  stable glucose level. And so it's a very powerful way  to support that 


Absolutely. Wow. Okay. So for someone listening, as they're kind of taking this all in and ways that they might be able to bring this into their own life, what are some of the kind of recommended protocols that they might be able to envision themselves utilizing if perhaps they are there. maybe not getting a lot of movement into their life.

They're trying to newly get back into the swing of up leveling the amount of exercise that they're getting in. They want to fit it into their busy life and they would like for it to show up on their, you know, kind of, uh, biometrics. So if they're tracking and they've tracking heart rate, they're looking to lower that a bit, maybe hoping that it might show up in HRV and no, obviously a trickier metric and respiratory rate, some of those kind of nervous system indicators.

What my one, what can they anticipate that over time that might show up? I know that's a broad question, but two what is kind of the beginning state that people might start with to work this into their lives?  

So the bike is very versatile. You can do a lot of different things with it. The.  In a way, the reason we've built it and why our customers purchase it is ReHit, because you can get this incredibly effective workout, um, in that gives, that improves your fitness and, and improves your metabolic health.

But you can do a whole lot more with it. Um, the, our recommendation is two to three ReHit rides. per week. So three re hit rides would be optimal. So that takes each ride five to eight minutes. Um, depends a bit whether how much you're in a rush. The important thing, really the important thing is the two 20 second sprints. 

Um, and what you can expect And there's great scientific research, so done independently by various universities in the world, and also reflected in our own data, is an improvement in your VO2 max. So that's your ability to use oxygen during exercise. And VO2 max is, um,  pretty much the most important health marker.

It's the strongest correlate to life expectancy. And with, with those three rehab rides per week, in a period of only eight weeks, you can improve your VO2 max. By 12 percent and that's, um, that's, that's very significant because it's such a fundamental health marker. Um, so it's, um, one,  yeah, very,  very significant, like on, on paper, if you want.

The other thing is very noticeable. So it's  very clearly something that you will feel. So you will feel better. You will feel fitter, more capable for, for comparison. We lose per decade. about 10 percent of VO2 max, uh, after the age of 30. So in only eight weeks, you could offset that and turn back the clock of your, on your fitness by, by over a decade  with very minimal time requirement.

Um, so that's one. And then the other thing is, uh, as a reflection of metabolic health improvements, um, you can reduce your risk of developing metabolic diseases like type two diabetes  by 62%. Also in only eight weeks. And there's a very good science on that. Um, both done independently and on our, uh, on our equipment to show that.

Um, so that's, that's what you can expect. The main thing,  I mean, and it, it really just shows how, how fundamentally important I would say kind of of all the  biohacks or however you want to call it that I do.  Sleep.  I find exercise is the most noticeable and most directly observable benefit. So I do a lot of stuff.

Um, I'm not really sure whether it helps, but I kind of have faith in and hope that in the long run it will be useful. I find for sleep. Um, every single night I get immediate feedback. So is this instantly, um, within like literally a day, um, the next morning, you know, whether you slept well, um, with, with exercise it's slightly, um,  so it's more a matter of days and weeks before you, you, you feel the benefit, but it's also something very, very noticeable and very, very direct.

Um, and  yeah, it's something just really fundamental that certainly. That's a lot of big health improvements in my life and and kind of well being improvements. Um, and I think that that everybody should. focus on and prioritize.  

Ah, so good. And what you're speaking to with VO2 Max, especially, I mean, it's certainly maybe always been in the news, but I think it's even in recent years, we're understanding just how crucial of a marker this is for right at an indicator of overall health and well being, what we can expect for the future, what we can expect for your performance now.

But then from a mitochondrial perspective, we do a lot of focus or have a lot of attunement or focus on mitochondrial health for sleep, since it does require quite a bit of energy to sleep, contrary to what we might think. Consider seems like it's this passive thing, but there's a lot going on and the more that we can have the body in a state that it can be conducive to great sleep and be able to deliver on that.

It's this beautiful symphony of requiring that energy store and this is an access point to that. So if someone's thinking. Okay. I'm, I'm really interested. This sounds like this could be really effective and yet would they come from a perspective of, okay, this is just like one part of my fitness. Do I need to be doing a ton of other things?

Like how all encompassing would this be in their fitness routine? Yeah, so 

this is lays a very, very good foundation for your cardio fitness and we have a broad range of customers, some who are really time strapped and, the busy executives that you'd think of that don't have time to exercise.

We have others that just don't. Like to exercise that much or who struggled to make the time available and others who just want this really powerful training stimulus added to what they do. What we suggest is for your cardio health, this lays a very strong foundation. And it takes  as little as 15 minutes per week.

So that's wonderful. Amazing. If you want to do more. There's more things that you can be doing. Yes. So zone two training mixing in some longer sessions for mitochondrial efficiency certainly helps. And so if you have three, four hours per week, the bike offers zone based training. Wonderful is excellent.

And then obviously there's more than cardio. I actually love lifting weights. So there, there is something to be said. No, I find so resistance training belongs into any complete exercise regime as well as some mobility work. So I think those are like really the three big pillars when it comes to exercises, cardio resistance and mobility.

But you get for one, Critical one, maybe the most important one, a very, very strong foundation with very, very little time requirement. And what we find, what I find so powerful about it is that it helps to create a really sticky habit. So  I do every morning straight after I get up. I do some exercise three days a week.

I will do the  free head session on the Carol bike. The other days I will do, um, a short shop, uh, Weightlifting resistance training session, and that, um,  that gives me a good routine to stick to,  um, has, has many, many benefits, um, about like setting your daily rhythm and, and getting timing, right? Yes. Um, but, but the, the really critical thing is, and here, this is where it all, um, stands or falls apart, um, is that, that exercise is. 

Is like a diet in a way you can achieve amazing results in a very short period of time,  but it's not a one off effort. You have to, you have to stick to it. So the deep training effect is sadly as fast as the training effect. So, um,  whatever you do for it. In terms of, of exercise and I'm sure this is very similar to improving your sleep.

Um, like you, you have to focus on it. You have to, um, continually do it. And so you have to find something that you can really make part of your routine and you can stick to come sunshine or 

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Are you looking for an easy and impactful way to elevate your fitness and sleep quality simultaneously? Well, then you need to hear about the Carol bike. It's become my latest obsession. It's an AI powered exercise bike. That's really creating a lot of buzz in the fitness world with its effective five minute workouts.

The Carol bike stands to support your heart rate variability, HRV and VO two max, which are key markers of cardiovascular health and overall wellbeing. And this boost in your fitness protocols can directly Influence your sleep by aiding in blood sugar balance, which consequently supports reducing those disruptive wake ups that are often tied to metabolic health.

What makes the Carol Bike especially appealing is its focus on brief approximately again, five minute workouts that fit effortlessly into even the busiest of schedules. These workouts are tailored to tap into your body's innate mechanisms for balancing blood sugar, which is crucial for avoiding those restless nights caused by glucose fluctuations.

Just today, after indulging in a meal rich in fruits and sweet potatoes, a combination that typically would really spike my glucose levels with the addition of the Carol bike, my continuous glucose monitor showed that my levels stayed nicely balanced thanks to that quick five minute workout. So this is a testament to how integrating Carol bike workouts into your daily life In between zoom calls and all the things that you got going on can help you commit to a journey towards improved fitness and more serene uninterrupted sleep.

And isn't that what we all want? It even earned the 2024 good housekeeping award for its Innovation in health and fitness for those who are eager to integrate an efficient science backed workout that aligns perfectly with a hectic lifestyle while delivering enduring benefits. The Carol bike represents an exciting opportunity to do just that.

Now, thankfully, Carol has hooked us up with a discount. If you use the code sleep is a skill, all one word, you'll get a discount at checkout. And if you pull the trigger on the Carol bike, Please let me know how it works out for you. Oh my goodness. Actually, I love what you said too, that consistency sticking with that, that is definitely one of the strong suits I would say of sleep optimization is that it's something that presumably we're going to be doing every single night.

So we continue to have, maybe whether we like it or not, the opportunity to keep experimenting with what are some of the things that can really start to move the needle. And actually, as you were speaking, one of the things that I just realized for myself that I think I might add in is um, on many of these trackers, you can add little tags of behaviors to see then, Oh, how is this correlating with some of my sleep results?

And I just realized that with the aura ring, I can make a little tag, like a Carol tag, and then I can press my little tag for each time I do my check, my five minutes, my nine minutes or whatever. Bye And then see over time how that correlates with those results. And so I'm sharing that for people that are listening in that ways that we can start to gamify.

How can we make this, uh, hopefully interesting, almost N equals one opportunity to see how this affects our own sleep and biometric results. But even beyond that, What's nice is to have that, that trust in that knowing that this is something that's already been established and clear and scientifically proven to deliver these results.

And as your, you know, website says in getting all those benefits and 90 percent less time compared to regular cardio, which is just wild. 

So you, you managed to get the benefits of a 45 minute run,  um, in, in as little as five minutes. So it's, it's amazing in terms of. The, the time saving and therefore, yes, because if you, it is quite shocking if you, um, look at it, um, and there are scientific studies on it, um, less than 5 percent of Americans get the recommended amount of exercise.

And if you survey people, why?  The, the number one reason is lack of time.  And so there's clearly a requirement for shorter, more time efficient workouts.  And then people say like, Oh, but it's just an excuse. They have time and so on. But the competition for time is so strong.  I think we're, we're, and even things that are joyful and, and so sleep,  I think I've read that we're now sleeping about one and a half hours less. 

per night than we did, um, in 1940 or so. And, um, so,  Yes. It's all right to say, Oh, it's just an excuse that people don't have time, but the competition for time is so, so, so intense that, um,  you know, you have to like, what's easier, what's easier to, to win the competition against, um, Instagram and TikTok and Netflix that are very, very skillful in, in  eating up all the time that you, you could possibly have.

Or do you try to. Get the same, like, find the solution that delivers the same benefits, but just in much, much less time. 

I love that. Well, I'm getting very inspired now to, for myself to be kind of starting to log this as a ongoing routine and be able to, See and experience those benefits. And I think I'm going to actually do a updated VO2 max tests and before, and then do it later on and be able to share the difference that that has made.

Incredible. And then I know, and we've seen too, in many studies of the impact of exercise on mental health and anxiety and some of these issues that we certainly cannot divorce from our sleep results, any call outs there. Yeah, 

so there is by now a large body of scientific evidence that  demonstrates that exercise is as effective or more effective in treating anxiety and depression as psychotherapy or medication. 

Um, and interestingly, higher intensity exercise tends to be more effective than low or moderate intensity exercise. Well, while this is complex and not fully understood,  the factor that's thought to be at play there is lactate, that, that anaerobic high intensity exercise produces A lot of lactate that gets transported to the brain and there plays a role in the production of  substances like serotonin and norepinephrine and and which which help to, um, combat anxiety and depression and improve your your mental health.

Um, and so as.  Anxiety, depression for, for some people clearly will affect sleep quality.  Doing something for your physical health, for your mental health through exercise, um, can certainly help to improve sleep, 

I think. Absolutely. Yeah. I know before we hit record, just kind of discussing that recent meta analysis that came out on exactly this topic and how sleep huge of the implications this makes because we do and are having emerging research of how much of a difference this can make to add in some of these exercise snacks into our life.

And certainly Carol is an example of the most bite sized snack that you can bring in. That's one of the reasons I was so excited about it was because because to your point, that's the deficit of time that we're, many of us are experiencing, feeling, and then we're seeing it eat away and erode our sleep results.

Really, really crucial. Okay. So, so many important topics, big topics here. Before we shift gears into how you're managing your own sleep, is there anything that we left out or that you want to make sure we convey? I think 

we've covered the main points and certainly it's, um, like sleep is super fundamental.

It's for me, it's like the number one thing. Um, the number one immediate thing where your behavior, um, can improve your wellbeing and your health. Um, But straight after that, um, I think exercise slots in and it's, it's very, very noticeable. Um, it's not subtle at all. I mean, you get all these metrics on the bike is wonderful.

So to exactly track your fitness score and you can measure your VO two max and all that. Um, and  so that's, that's all there, but you, you really will feel it same as you will feel whether you slept well or not. You, you very clearly will feel the difference in terms of your fitness 

levels.  Absolutely. Yes.

Oh, I love that. Well, so incredible. I love these advancements and innovations in technology and how they can impact our biology. So so appreciate you having created this and being a part of this. And real quick, what is the meaning behind the name Carol? What was the backstory there? I was just always curious 

about that.

Yeah, that's, that's just a little bit nerdy. So, uh, CAROL stands for, is it like an acronym for, uh, cardiovascular optimization logic. So CAROL is  kind of the name we've given to our AI that personalizes and optimizes the The workout for our users. So, um, what, what does maybe, maybe just quickly to explain on a car or bike, you don't have any buttons, um, it's, it's just controlled by a computer and, um, like an automatic, uh, like, like breaking system.

Um, so you can really just focus on the exercise, you're guided through it. And. The machine, the algorithms will optimize the exercise for you, um, first to get like to an optimal, uh, get an optimal workout as you start, um, and then as you progress and you get fitter and stronger, our algorithms keep adjusting it to, you know, keep like exactly the right level of challenge there for you.

And so it got a name, it got a name, and the name was Carol, same as, uh, like HAL, Heuristic Algorithm in, in  Space Odyssey, or, or Vicky. That's, that's just like the, there was a time when all the, the, the AI characters had, had little, um, acronyms. And so that's Carol. 

That's, that's where it came from. That is so cool.

I love that. Okay. Well, thanks for entertaining me on that because I was very curious. That's amazing. So we'll switch gears because we've found that people really enjoy hearing how other people are managing their own sleep, especially people that really are taking their sleep and their health seriously.

So the first question that we ask everyone is how are you managing your nightly sleep routine right now? 

So maybe let's start with the morning. So one thing is,  I think it is helpful to have, so I exercise. Um, at least six days a week in the morning. Um, so with either a short rehab ride or a short lifting session.

And I think that, um,  helps from a, from a circadian rhythm perspective. Yeah. To, to basically, um,  uh, give  the site giver, uh, yes, exactly.  yes. To, to, to basically set that circadian rhythm and establish, uh, a bit of, um, routine and regularity. So that's, um, that's one thing just to how I then start my day and, but it, it carries through the day and, and into the night now,  then at night,  I'm actually, so I, I'm very good at falling asleep.

That's, uh, I don't struggle with that at all. And I'm blessed with, with good sleep in that sense. And, um, so the things that I need to do. Um,  to, to get good sleep. One is a certain level of discipline. So, um,  the things we've referred to, basically any app that you can scroll through, I think must be a no, no, um, sometime before at time, because it's just, uh, it, it, I find it messes up the brain.

Um, so. Yeah. Absolutely. And  sometimes I, uh, I'm successful with that. Sometimes also not. So nobody's perfect. But, so that's clearly a, a, an important thing for, um, sleep routine. Um, as a middle aged men, man, I, I found it's also important to reduce liquid intake. Um, totally. Yeah. Like a good time before, Bedtime to just, um, avoid nighttime, uh,  waking and, and having to go to the bathroom.

That's, um, I think that's so, so no electronics and avoiding scrolling and stopping liquid intake. Uh, obviously alcohol intake, alcohol is a killer for sleep. Um, Early enough before, um, going to bed. And then what, what I find is really super helpful, like even if you, um,  if you had a, um,  a,  some like, like overstimulation just before, um, bedtime.

And that's unfortunately, like, if you, if you're in a busy job, it's not always avoidable. Yeah. Like we, we, I live in London. Most of our customers in the U S  most of the team is in the U S so I get, uh, regularly. kind of messages late at night, sometimes like, oh shit, this happened. Yeah, exactly.  So, um, I do find  like a short meditation session, um, actually incredibly powerful to just  Like come down and calm down and then get my brain into, into  a different state, into a more relaxed state.

So if I failed on some of the other things I've said, so, so had like a lot of stimulation even before, uh, sleep time, um,  and, and there, the, the tool that, that I find actually very powerful muse band. Um, so sure. Yep. Even a short session. Um,  But that's, that makes it just so much easier for me to, to  basically clear my brain.

I don't know how else to call it, but, but have a highly effective short, um, meditation session, um, to, to just reset and then calm down and get ready for, for nighttime. So those are, those are some of the, um, things that I find, um,  that are really important for me. Yeah. Of course, there's many other things.

Um, That, that people swear by, but those are some of the most important things 

for me. Oh, fantastic. Okay. And that was so perfect. Cause you actually hit on kind of the morning sleep routine and the evening sleep routine, which is great. And then we check in on what might we visually see on your nightstand or if you're traveling, maybe kind of proverbial nightstand, but things in your environment.

Yeah. Yeah. Not very much be the, so it's actually, you, there is a mobile phone. That's, um, yeah, unhelpful.  Yeah, but other than that, no, you'd find literally nothing like the mobile phone and the Apple watch. And that's, that's about 

it. Absolutely. Well, and that's one of the through lines that we're finding more and more is this minimalism kind of interesting display of what seems like that added effectiveness by having less, less is more in the world of sleep optimization.

So love that. And then lastly, we would check in on. What would you say to date has made the biggest change to your own management of your sleep? 

Again, that's just a reflection of being a middle aged man may man, maybe. Um, so, so just liquid intake at night that, that really does, um, that helped me, um, reduce  waking at night and, and having longer continuous sleep that's  can only recommend.

It is good.  

Yes, absolutely. It's, I mean, and that's the thing too. So many of these elements for getting great sleep are foundational, are the things that just logical and make sense. And yet we might overlook in our busy, maybe mismanagement at times of our days and our time blocking and we forget to kind of have a strong balance on these things, then things can go out of balance.

So really great reminders. And now for anyone listening that is saying, wow, okay, I want to really learn more about this, test out getting the Carroll bike and continue to follow all the research and all the things, where can they go? What can they do? 

Yeah, sure. So,  You will find a ton of research and information at carolbike.

com, our website. Um, so there's a lot of information with all the science, um, links to the papers that we reference and so on. Um, also with all the capabilities of the bike and you can learn a lot there. Um, You can learn even more and, um, kind of see whether it might be bright for you by scheduling a call with one of our fitness advisors.

So, um, they will have a master's in exercise science and can really discuss with you whether it's the right thing for you.  Um, you can also follow us on all the socials at the carol bike. It's always the same.  Um, and if you want to try it, So we, we don't, um, have a ton of showrooms there. We, we are in, um, kind of the higher end, uh, boutique, uh, biohacking studios or so.

Um, but one thing is just we offer a very generous and I think industry leading risk free trial. So if you purchase the bike, we deliver it for free and you can test it and try it for 100 days. And that's  way enough time to see whether you like it, whether you can stick to it and build a healthy routine, um, out of it and whether you benefit from it.

So, uh, you have a hundred days. If it's not for you, if you don't like it, you give us a call and we pick it up without questions asked and you get a full refund. So that's, that's what we offer our customers to  basically overcome this, um, to, to make the decision 

easier for you.  Oh, wow. I didn't realize that about the return policy and that's amazing.

I feel like for anyone listening that's on the fence that does, uh, can help remove some of the concerns, apprehension, uh, to be able to dive in there and test something out that could so markedly transform your health, your length of time, presumably it could be on this planet. I mean, we're talking about all cause mortality when we're talking about quality of health of life.

And then of course, on this podcast, your sleep results. And then the numbers that show up on your trackers and what have you, there's not a ton of things that can kind of spider into as many aspects of your life and your health. So really, really cool. So I've been grateful that we've been able to partner up to get this message out.

And so your team has hooked us up with the sleep is a skill code to get additional discount. So if you are interested, Kind of checking out the website or what have you. You can use the code sleep as a skill to get that, uh, discount. So amazing. So grateful to be partnered with such innovative companies just means the world.

And just thank you so much for taking the time across the pond, as they say, to take the time to have this conversation. 

Thank you so much. That 

was a great pleasure. Aw, thank you.  You've been listening to The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level.

Every Monday, I send out the Sleep Obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet. Fun Facts. I've never missed A Monday for over five years and counting, and it contains everything that you need to know in the fascinating world of sleep. Head on over to Sleep as a skill.com/newsletter to sign up. 


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