208: Todd Anderson, Co-Founder of Dream Performance & Recovery: Sleep Smarter, Breathe Better, Recover Faster: Your Guide to Optimized Sleep

 Welcome to the Sleep As a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as A Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world. Thinks about sleep.

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Each week I'll be interviewing world-class experts, ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness.

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And I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.

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Well, welcome to the Sleep is AKI podcast. Today I'm joined by Todd Anderson, someone who brings a really unique perspective to the world of sleep and recovery. Todd's story is pretty incredible. He started as a walk-on football player at Michigan State and eventually made it to the NFL with the Rams.

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But what stood out most. To him during that journey wasn't just the training, it was the recovery. That curiosity about how the body heals and performs led him down a path of deep learning around sleep, psychology, and performance optimization. He now holds over 10 certifications in fitness and human performance, and is currently pursuing a PhD in sleep psychology.

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In 2023, he co-founded. Dream performance and recovery where he's focused on designing products that support better, more restorative sleep. In this conversation, we explore how Todd's athletic background shaped his approach to rest, what he's learned about the connection between mindset and recovery. And the small, consistent habits that make a big difference over time.

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So whether you're an athlete, a high performer, or just someone trying to get better sleep, you will get a lot out of this episode. So let's jump into it without further ado. But first, a few words from our sponsors. Important question. Can you see the hand in front of your face in your bedroom? If so, you need to hear about our sponsor who is revolutionizing the blackout shade space, and finally making it easy and affordable to get a truly blacked out bedroom.

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If you wanna give it a try, go to buy optimizers.com/sleep as a skill and use the code, sleep as a skill to get gifts with your purchase. And this is a limited time offer, but I think you'll be. Pleasantly surprised by the results. And welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. Alright, this took us a while to even hit record because our guest is just overflowing with great information.

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And so I know our challenge will be how to condense this into a, uh, manageable podcast. So, Todd Anderson, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

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To be here. I've been, I've been, uh, watching you from afar for a while and, and you do amazing things for the sleep world.

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Aw, well thank you. And right back at you.

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I actually was sharing with you that just last night I was using one of your many products and I know there's more things coming and it's very exciting. So cannot wait to go in more deeply to. Your story as to how you became this kind of disruptor in the sleep world and, you know, helping to provide some real products that make a real difference.

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So tell us your story.

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Yeah, I mean, you know, it, it was, it was partially self-serving. Um, you know, maybe getting close to 10 years ago now, I got to spend about a week with Dr. Jennifer Martin outta UCLA. Oh. And, you know, this was before like. Anybody was talking about sleep. Really? Yeah. You know, it was like, not on like the, uh, preventative or performance side, you know?

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Oh, sure. It was very clinical. Yes. Uh, and, you know, I was always interested in it because when I was in college, you know, kind of the first big study came out when they were, you know, linking sleep, uh, sleep deprivation and testosterone levels, and being al player, I'm like, well, I need my testosterone.

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Exactly. That's like the whole thing. Yeah. And that's kind of where it sparked. But you know, her being, you know, coming from a. The psychology side of things too, I think especially was intriguing because I just had this light bulb go off. I'm like, this, this is like the foundation of everything, right? Yeah.

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Like not even just sports performance or you know, body composition. We're talking like cognitive function, longevity, all of this, but nobody is, is talking about this stuff. Hmm. And so went back, took courses, um, and, you know, did as much continuing ed as I could without being on the clinical side. And then.

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You know, being an athlete got invited, started speaking more and more on it to companies, corporations, teams, and, because the thing I, you know, the thing that I felt was kind of missing was like, we had doctors come in and, and talk about, you know, sleep was important and why kind of, but I don't feel like anybody was really communicating it in a way that impacted me.

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Yeah. And so I love the quote from Nick Winkelman. Who's a, a performance coach, that's communication is what's heard, not what's said. Mm. And I think that's kind of like where I feel like I come in is, is, you know, when I go talk to a team, how can I, you know, gather up the science in a way that they're gonna really care about it and be bought into it.

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Yeah. Because it doesn't really matter how much you know, unless you can, you're doing it and you care. Yes. And so, so that was, that's kind of like where, where I, I feel like my place is, is, is trying to get people bought into that message and understand enough of the science to care, but also connecting it to what they care about in this, in the position they're in or what their goals are.

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Um, and so I started doing that and I would get asked all the time. You know, what sleep mask should I use? Like what, what are these products? And I would always, you know, I didn't have any go-to answer, especially in like the athletic world. It was like, you know, you had your pillowcases and sleep masks and they were usually pink and silk and like this beauty vibe and Yes.

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And then I started mouth taping kind of around the same time. And it was, it was like life changing for me. Just, you know, the quality of my sleep went through the roof and, um. At that point, there was almost nothing out there. So there was just all these, these, I get asked all these questions all the time.

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I'm like, why don't we just do this? At the same time, I met my partners who were already developing a sleep mask and I had some ideas for what I wanna do. I'm like, let's create a brand that I. Is built for any, trying to be a high performer that's, you know, is athletic and, and you know, it, it's not, it is presenting sleep in this way of like becoming the best version of yourself, not as this luxury or beauty type thing.

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Yeah, absolutely. And how did you stumble on the mouth taping piece and as you know, like certainly in the sleep community there's different, more

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controversial

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Yeah. A little controversial. So curious, I discovered it. And how do you take those steps?

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Yeah. And I love this conversation because, well, I read James Nestor's book, which I feel like everybody kind of goes that direction and it really just kind of sets you down a path of, and, and, and it is just so it justly makes so much sense.

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Yeah. Um, that's really what sparks my interest and kind of allowed me to start experimenting. But, you know, I've had a couple conversations. I, I won't mention names, but like I had, I had a breakfast with. One of the top, uh, on the clinical side sleep docs. And, um, she's written articles against mouth taping, like kind of, kind of, you know, been included.

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And, and I was excited to talk to her. The first thing that was awesome is like, it's just so open-minded about listening, and I think that because there's money to be made, sometimes these messaging, the messaging gets kind of like all thrown off, but yes. You know, I, I think when it, when it comes to sleep and, and helping people sleep, breath work is one of the first things that's recommended.

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Mm-hmm. And I don't think there's any doubt that the power of breath and the connection to your nervous system is a real thing and a powerful thing. Yeah. And so I think that that's the way we're thinking about it is, is, is a passive way. To really harness that power of your breath. Mm-hmm. And I think that the problem with breath work, at least from my experience, is when, when it's recommended, one, it's hard to get people to buy into something that's, it takes a little time to feel and it, you have to be very intentional.

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Yeah. And I think. In, in this day and age, not many people are willing to to do that. So it's a way to almost back yourself into that behavior and feel something and relax your nervous system and get you, get you in a state that that's ready to sleep. And that's really, I, I think that's the power mouth taping is, is harnessing.

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Breath work in a sense. And then the other thing I think it just naturally does is create routine. I think it's a trigger. Yeah. You know, I think it, it also, you, you get people that go from nothing to one. Believing this thing might is gonna help them. And then also consistency and routine. And I think when you combine those things, it makes a lot of.

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That's why it works. But if you think that this piece of tape is revolutionary, revolutionary, it's gonna fix all your problems. It's not the tape, it's all the things that, that come with it.

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Yes. Oh, so well said. Okay. So I know as well with this company that you've been a stand for making that difference for people with their sleep with these products.

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And I think you have some new things, um, on the horizon too. Yeah. If you're okay to share about that. Yeah.

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Yeah. I mean, so we have our mask pillowcases, and we're coming out with some, some smaller stuff, but, uh, our nasal strips are, are. Gonna be our, our biggest product. I think we've been working on them for over a year now, kind of perfecting them and trying to get something that really performs at a high level, both for sleep and performance.

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And then is aesthetically better looking. Because right now they're pretty clunky and ugly. Yeah, exactly. So the amount of people that utilize those for breathing at night is, it's pretty wild. Yeah. I think more people than people, more, more people use than people realize. And, um. I don't love everything out there.

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And there's a lot of reasons, just different things, little small things that, you know, the adhesives used and the shape and just some of the different angles and the way that they, you know, dilate the, the nostrils. So trying to create something that, again, will just help people and can be another, uh, tool in the toolbox.

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And I think that like the tape, it's like, it's, it's obviously more intimidating. There's more, um, you know, red flags as far as people who shouldn't utilize that, where the, you know, nasal strip is just, it's a pretty easy safe. Low Barr entry way to get somebody to start hopefully breathing, uh, more efficiently and, and better throughout the night.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I'm stoked about it. Hopefully, hopefully people like them, but I, I think they're pretty great. I.

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Oh, amazing. Okay. Fantastic. Yeah. Any other thoughts that you think that people really need to know in case people are tuning in and saying, I've heard about this mouth taping, or maybe they're totally new to mouth taping.

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I know you and I are kind of in this, uh, weird world where we're like, oh, but of course mouth taping still. Yeah. I,

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we went to the Boston of Marathon last year and had a booth and I'm like, these are like, you know, Boston Marathon fast runners. Sure. I'm thinking people are dialed in health and wellness.

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Yeah. I think one out 30 maybe Ev even heard about mouth taping. Yes, yes, exactly. So I was, I was pretty shocked.

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Yeah. So maybe kind of starting at the mouth taping 1 0 1, anything that you think people need to really know or understand if they are just kind of coming into this as to why they might wanna delve in and why they shouldn't just throw on some like, I don't know, scotch tape.

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Random tape. Just random tape, right. Yeah.

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Yeah. I mean, I think it, like I said, especially, we kind of went over it, but, but I think that, um, yeah. I think I, I do think people don't think fully about like what they're doing with, with what you're putting on your face. It's, you know, yeah. With skincare routines, it's like people are so aware of where it comes from and what ingredients are in there, but then when it comes to tape, you should think of it the same, if not more, because it's not, it's really stuck to your face for eight hours.

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Right. The other Exactly. Skincare stuff, exact, uh, is, uh, evaporates. But, um, so yeah, I mean, we're mainly the. And I think it's really important to know exactly what kind of adhesive is it water-based, not irritant? Um, and, and just understand like what the, also what's made outta microplastics. There's a lot of stuff that we aren't sure of in that space.

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So just, just get something that's quality and, and, and, you know, you know, the sources. That's my, that's my only hesitation 'cause there's a lot of wild stuff out there. And that's kinda the reason you don't want to just use anything. You want something that's made to be on your face and, and safe, uh, materials and, and stuff that is meant to be in contact with your skin that long.

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Oh, absolutely. And any other final pushes as to if some people are like, oh, I don't know, is that safe? Or like, could that be right? Problematic. I always

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recommend I actually have 'em sitting here. Right. But the dream strips are just like the, the small little tiny strips. Like you don't wanna be restricting, like they're literally flexible, like, and they're vertically flexible that they're only ones that stretch up and down everyone else, like stretches side to side.

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So across, yeah, again, it's just like a reminder, think about it as being a reminder reminder. To your brain to keep its mouth closed throughout the night. It doesn't need to be this like clamping crazy. You don't really want that. You want your, you wanna do it on your own eventually. That's the goal. And so, um, you know, utilize whatever it, whatever's needed.

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But that's a great place to start. And I, and even bringing awareness to it throughout the day, I think when you're going for a walk or just sitting and watching tv. Yeah. And just think about your breath and, and kind of, you know. Bringing awareness to anything, any problem you're trying to solve or get better at when you, when you start to focus on it, things start to happen.

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So I think being aware throughout the day is also really powerful. Sometimes it is a lack of awareness and you can really train yourself to breathe better just because you weren't, you weren't knowing the, you weren't intentional with the way you were actually doing it.

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Yeah. Do you recommend people using the mouth tape by day when training or,

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it depends on like your goals?

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Yes. It's certain, like really high level athletes that are trying to, uh, work on certain. You know, aerobic threshold zones or, or very specific stuff. Maybe you could do that. But also we recommended to throw a little piece on if people are nervous for the first couple times and just watch TV and just kind of prove to yourself clearly you can breathe through your nose, you're gonna be fine.

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Yeah, yeah. Just relax and, and kind of get used to it.

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Are there any people that you think should not be mouth taping or any kind of callouts?

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Yeah, I mean, any severe apnea, you know, if, if, um, if there's any question of that espe and also just anyone that's sup, you know, that's, that's. Like in the obesity range, you know?

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Mm-hmm. Not recommended any, you know, honestly, anyone with an over 17 inch neck probably go get a sleep test if you haven't. And that regardless, that's probably be a little bit of red flag. I mean that there's, there's really no downside to, to doing at least like a at home one or something.

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Yeah. I'm

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always telling all my football buddies like, Hey, you have a big neck, you need to go get checked.

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Yeah, let's

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go. I know. I'm so biased. I want like everyone to test regardless, you know? Right. Yeah.

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It should be the new blood work for sure. Nice. There's no doubt. I don't see how that's not paired together. It just makes, it's ridiculous all the sense in the world, especially with some of the new wearables and, you know, like, they're so simple.

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At least check out your breathing, you know, check outing. It's just so easy. One night, a couple nights and just check the box, you know?

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Yes, preach. Love it.

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But it's not, it's, it's really down the road of testing, you know, like if you, you went to a primary right now. I mean, it is, it is. It is kicking the can quite a few ways down there.

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Oh, totally.

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Like how many visits do you think would it take? Like if you went to a primary just. Random pick one out of the, out of like a random yellow pages and, and

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Oh, come on. Six

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seven.

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Well, okay, so if, and if our average primary care is getting less than two hours of training in sleep, even out of Harvard Med, the likelihood that you'll even, they'll catch some of these red flags.

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Unless you are coming saying, I need this. I know it's very unlikely that they would spot some of those things. Not maybe malicious or anything, but just. Because of lack of training. Yeah. And so many people are just gonna go unseen. And yet, and then even to your point, the process of then getting referrals.

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So I can tell you, so I finally got my mom to get tested. She was like hesitant and resistant for a long time. And of course she did have sleep apnea. And then she went to go take her diagnosis. We did an at-home test, and then she went to go take it to her doctor and it was going to be, it was almost a year wait for her.

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This is a middle and nowhere main. It was just sinful. I have just, it's so messed up. So of course we had to go kind of all the O out of pocket routes and just not deal with any of that. But still, I mean, just for the average person that is. Craziness. It's craziness. Crazy. Yeah, exactly.

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It's, it's also crazy 'cause you think that it would change because also just monetarily there's a huge opportunity if somebody would treat those people.

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Exactly. So that Right. Usually that's the missing link. So I'm like, I don't really understand why it's not changing. 'cause you, somebody's gonna come in and make a ton of money 'cause people need, need help.

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Totally. And now that there's, even for sleep apnea, even more types of treatments. So it's not even just like one and done with a CP pap now it's like, yeah.

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You know, the oral appliances, now we're talking about the peptides as a treatment and different drug options and there's uh, there's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot. I feel like

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it's really the peptide that all the peptide medication world, I feel like the last year two, it's really, oh my god.

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Evolved insane.

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Sleep is a skill, all one word at checkout for a discount. Okay. Well, I'm really excited to find out how you're managing your own sleep. But before we get there, any kind of kind of closing thoughts on this huge topic of breathing and sleep and optimization for, and breathing and sleep for performance and all that?

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I mean, it's, it's one of those things that I don't think everyone thinks about, but it probably should be one of the first things when I think about when you think about sleep. There's only a few factors that could really, for the, for the majority of the population be off, right? Yeah. Like there's only a few that are glaring and that you can address and, and measure.

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And so I think it's just something to be aware of. And I think if you're trying to sleep better and, uh, if you've had issues or not, you're just trying to optimize your sleep. I think that starting with your breath and making sure that you're breathing correctly, even if it you're sleeping pretty well, like it, it's gonna have a positive impact if it's not.

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If, if you're not, you know, breathing outta your nose consistently every single night. So it start there. Yeah. You know, it's a great starting point to just address and make sure it's happening and, and then, um, you know, go down your own, your own route of exploration. But, you know, I'm not, I'm definitely not somebody that's like, everybody should be mouth taping.

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That's not my vibe. Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, and you also have to be ready for it and, and learn. I, I think that, I also think that, you know. Reading edu, educating yourself on nasal breathing. You know, reading James Nestor's book is an awesome thing. Yes. And just kind of understanding the background because I think you'll also be a lot more bought into the, the reasons behind it.

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Totally. And if anyone listening has maybe read James Nestor's book, or if you're coming from the academic leading background, um, jaws can be another. Yeah, great. One to kind of even go, you know, to a bit more into the recent, not even more, but in a different angle at the research. So, so much there and so I'm so happy that I'm Are you sleep

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mask person by the way?

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Do you use a mask or No?

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I do kind of in that. So meaning I use sleep crown. Uh, I really been liking the sleep crown. I dunno if you've used that. But then yes, I will use commonly the sleep mass. Now I'm very happy that our. Space is totally blackout. Which is like amazing.

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I was gonna say, it looks like it'd be tough to black out, but that's good.

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I got so thankfully

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in our bedroom it's not, it's different type of windows. Like, it's like a portion of that. Got it. They're able to totally black it out. And I dunno if you've seen you blockout, but they're an amazing sponsor. And not just, I'm not just saying this, but they're like, it's, it's so rewarding.

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I dunno if you've seen any of their stuff. 'cause like you pull down the thing and then it's like, I have a client that it like. Prison lockdown. 'cause it goes and it's totally black. That's awesome. It's, it's, it's to

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like fully black. Even a, the normal blackout shades are not, you know, no, those corners will light you up.

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Exactly. There's like always that stupid show, like shred of light or whatever's coming through. No. They like, really? It's wild.

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And I'm like, so, so the sleep mask is almost like, it's just habitual. Even if I have blackout now, I just have to have, I know. Well,

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I, I am right there with you in that. So what I am usually doing is different.

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I'm testing different types of masks that I'll get, like different ones to try, so I'm trying different ones and then also putting the, um, sleep crown on top so extra. But yes, it's, the light piece is so important and I love that you guys have, you know, really dialed in. Let's see. Yours has been amazing.

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I've really loved yours and actually I have often yours set up for when we have people over, so in case they like forget theirs. So I have it like set there. It's just like, oh, that's, that's awesome. Yeah, such a fan. Awesome. So great work there. So yeah, I'm excited to hear how you're managing your own sleep with all the work you've done, so I'm sure you're kind of always, you know, trying out different things.

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Yeah. So our first question is, so far, what is your current nightly sleep routine looking like right now?

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Uh, right now, so I always do some type of heat sauna or hot tub. That's usually the, the starter with my wife. It was sauna, but we're trying to have a kid, so it been. Going More hot tub for F fertility stuff.

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Oh my God.

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This is what we're doing too. Oh really? Wow. Yes. This is brand new. 'cause I've always been very like Peter Pan syndrome and I don't know, just like, I don't know, do we wanna have kids, like, scared, nervous about it, but now we're embarking into this world. So same with my husband. He's like, I wanna be in the sun.

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Yeah. But yeah. Yeah.

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Well, I'm starting, uh, I'm starting actually gonna launch another, a product, not, not with Dream, but it's gonna be called the Sperm Saver, and it's going to be an ice pack. Four guys going the sauna. So

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what?

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Oh my God. This is like really solving a current problem. I know. Tell, tell in my own life and with other people tell Yeah.

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Yeah. Have you met, uh, Mari? She, she's the founder of Bloom, Lou Wellen.

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I haven't met her, Austin.

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That's why I asked anyways. Okay. Yeah, it's the exact same situation. And so that, you know, I was talking to them about it and, uh, yeah. So that's gonna be self-serve, kind of same thing, but, um,

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amazing.

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It'll be kind of funny too, like the mark, you know, marketing would be funny, but, uh, oh yeah.

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So heat and then, um, blue light glasses. And then I usually do magnesium, you know, like some type of magnesium. Yep. Uh, and then that's pretty much it. I'm, I'm not too, I. Like the heat is like my foundation. Mm. And then the one thing I do is, which is, you know, everyone is shocked by this, but I do have a TV in my bedroom because I, I wore the glasses.

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Yes. I understand. Me,

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me and my wife we've for, with coming up on our 10 year anniversary, we, good thing always watch the show like 30 minutes. And I'm always like that 30 minutes like of kind of unwinding and connecting is far outweighs any of the. The negatives of having Yes. A, a TV in there. And so like, that's just something I'm not willing to bite John.

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And it obviously, you know, your relationships are more important than, than your sleep anyways. Yes.

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And there will be people arguing that makes not as much of a difference as people have said in the past. So there's definitely chance. Right. It's interesting.

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Well, well, some of the, uh, the stuff coming out about the actual content consumed as opposed to the light is, is pretty interesting.

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Yeah, exactly. No, I think that's great. And also knowing like what works for you. And it's interesting. I mean, we might have certain clients that they're watching like stressful, like, you know, thrillers or whatever. Yeah. Like Ozark or something. Yeah, right. Obvious things and of course, yeah. But then so commonly there can be, I mean my husband and I, we love to do like, I don't know, the office or like.

‍

Seinfeld or something like at end of night. A hundred percent. Yeah. Right. Just like those just Do you have a TV in your room? Feel good? We don't have it in our room, but we do have it like, we'll totally, we'll use different screens in the evening and on purpose, like it can just be such a good kind of like, I don't know, just like a numbing out experience.

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And there is research of showing, looking at brain states when we are watching certain shows. Of course the content matters, but it does seem to go into this weird like trance-like. State. Yeah. That it's really different. And so you can use these things thoughtfully.

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And I kind of grew up with like TV at night.

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Yes. Like, you know, and so I feel like that's a, a part of it too is just routine. Yeah. And, and I think it, it actually does have that calming effect with me.

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Totally. I so hear that. Amazing. Okay, so then what might we see in your morning sleep routine with the idea that how we start our day could impact our sleep?

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So definitely get outside. And I used to do cold plunge. Uh Okay. And I was hardcore on the cold plunge for a couple years, you know? Okay. As I think a lot of people were. Yes. Then I herniated a disc about five months ago and I started going in a hot tub. Um, and just to kind of loosen up, it was the only thing we were kind of helping.

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And it was the most relaxing, amazing start of my day. So I was like, why? You know, there's, life is stressful and, uh, I don't one start of my day in a, in a peaceful way that I kind of look forward to. So yeah, I usually sit there in the hot tub, kind of like, uh, get some natural sunlight in my eyes and then, um, just kind of like start chipping away and, and going through emails and slack and all those good things.

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But, you know, I try to start my day in like a. Outside and like a very calm, kind of zen way.

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Oh, that's great. I love that. Okay, nice. Yeah. And then what might we visually see in your space? Like on your nightstand or in your environment? Yeah,

‍

yeah. So I mean, you'll see mouth tape, you'll have my blue, my blue light glasses, um, sleep mask.

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And then I, my eight sleep has been a pretty incredible tool. Uh,

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yeah, tell me more. Are.

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I, yeah, I, I do love it. I tend, you know, my, the, honestly, the coolest feature that I didn't even. No existed was the thermal alarm. So like you can set it. Yeah. So, you know, if I wanna wake up at 6 30, 6 15, it starts to warm up quite a bit and you, you kind of wake up and, and don't know why.

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It's like a very Yes. Peaceful way to wake, wake up. So yeah. And then I just, I tend, tend to run hot. I think a lot of guys tend to be hot at night. Yes, I am. And, and my wife is cold. Same. Okay. Yeah. So having the, having the different temperatures has just been really, really nice. And also we're not arguing about the.

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Temperature in the bedroom?

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Yes. Do you have the base?

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I do, I do. Okay. Have you been liking

‍

that?

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Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's great at night too to sit up, but then you know, it, it's wild 'cause you don't realize it, but, you know, it'll, it'll detect snoring and, and really slowly adjust. And so, um, you know, adjust quite a bit.

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And I think you don't, it's hard to like to know I, I sleep really well, but, uh, yes, just quite a bit. You don't realize it. And, uh, I think it's an awesome feature. I also do love, like I, I feel like having my, the, my feet, they're like, it's like four degree elevated. Yes. Um, it seems like a little bit better position, you know?

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Sure. It's just not completely flat. So, and then when I hurt my back, it was like life changing because I would've been, I, I could barely even like laying weirdly what laying down was the worst. So it, it allowed me to actually get in a position where I could sleep.

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Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Good. Yeah.

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Well, I love that. I know we're such fans of eight as well, and thankfully they've been a sponsor of the podcast, which we're really grateful for. But yeah, game changer. Yeah, I have a partnership

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with them, but if I didn't I would, I would also, it would be totally organic.

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I, I know. No, seriously. 'cause I mean, yeah.

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And full disclosure. I mean, I've been a hugely obsessed with sleeping cold, no matter the brand. Yeah, same years. Years and years and years. To the point that I used to bring my old cooling mattress toppers, like on when I travel. And like, well

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that's the worst part though,

‍

right? Is

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when when you have it travel and then, 'cause I travel a lot and I'm like, I know because there's a, I don't, when people don't, has have never used one.

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I think that the thing they don't realize is. There's such a big difference between the air being cooler and having something in contact with you being cooler. I mean, totally, like two degrees is a huge different in temperature, and I think that's misleading. And so, I mean, you could, if you, if you crank that thing down, you're freezing.

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I. Whereas for the air temperature, it's that you need to be pretty cold in the room to have that same impact.

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Absolutely. I could not agree more. It's such a game changer. And you also just think about, um, historically, from like a ancestral perspective, if we know that it's only been a blip of time in history that we've been sleeping in this very weird way on these like wildly ordained, uh, or these audacious type of materials, whereas in the past we would be on the ground, which would've been the coolest part in the environment, right?

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Yeah. And so. And just non sub, like that cold. That cold is not really changing significantly. So you would've had your own natural cooling mattress topper in the past? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the ways that we're sleeping now we think that this is normal from, you know, kind of familiarity effect, but turns out it's really not that normal.

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It's very odd. Yeah, no,

‍

yeah, this

‍

thermal, like, you know, you're just kind of cooking in there all night long, so. Love that. Yeah.

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Not anymore. Yeah, not

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anymore. Exactly. So for you, the last question, very curious, maybe we know the answer, I don't know, but to date, what would you say has made the biggest change to the management of your sleep?

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Or maybe said another way. Biggest aha moment in managing your sleep. I've

‍

been kicking this around a little bit. I think that. Honestly, the sleep mask has actually been the most impactful for me. And the reason is, is like I, I, when I was younger, I did use devices and stuff, and it was just you. I feel like I didn't realize how, how much like I was, I was involved or I, I was focused on it.

‍

And so that really created a nice routine for me. And the other thing is like, it is something I can take anywhere I go and that's like this consistent thing. So it's almost like my, my comfort blanket, you know. I think it's also, it's been super impactful for athletes too, like just the people I go around to.

‍

It's kind of the same thing as I think with the, a lot of the younger generation, when I started using it, I was on the younger side. You know, you're just on your phone, you're doing stuff, you're scrolling till you kind of pass out. Well, when you all of a sudden change that and, and have a, a time where you commit to going to sleep, I think it's pretty revolutionary.

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Yes. And, uh,

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so that, I think actually that's been been, that's been the biggest change for me.

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Oh, I love that. Yeah. So well said. And just the difference that that can make in your life and having, um, that level of consistency paired with that kind of Pavlovian effect, with the eye mass. That's great. Okay.

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Yeah. And now for people listening that are like, all right, fine, I need, should hear more about this company, these products, and the things that are coming, and I'm very excited about. The Sauna Edition and all of this is amazing, so I will be continuing to follow all of this progress, but how can others do that?

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And also follow you and your content and your, you know, passion for these, um, ways of improving your life and sleep.

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So, yeah, I mean I'm on Instagram the most. It's just Ty send 42, but starting YouTube up. And then Dream Recovery is, is our, is my company. Um, so we have a lot of cool new stuff coming out and then I'm launching a newsletter next week that's gonna have a lot of sleep stuff and cool ships and different, you know, products.

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I recommend everything like we talked about today will be kind of included in there. So that'll be a big focus of mine this, this next year. So yeah, I appreciate any support.

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Yes, I'm happy to help. Oh, amazing. And I'm pretty sure we have a Yeah. Quote that You guys sleep as a skill, I believe. Yes.

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All caps.

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Yes, all caps. So for anyone, uh, listening and it's like, of all these many different types of things, wanting to check these out. The mouth tape, the mask, all these acc Do you have the glasses

‍

yet?

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I don't have the glasses. I gotta send

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you some glasses.

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Oh, I would love that. Yes, please. You all right? Alright.

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Yeah, I got you. Hard to hear first folks. I'll definitely be testing and sharing those. That sounds great. But yeah, so thank you. So definitely use the code, sleep as a skill, check that out and just really appreciate your passion and clearly just ingenuity in seeing problems in the health space and taking action.

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That's just what we need. Yeah.

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Appreciate it. Appreciate the support. Awesome.

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Thank you. You've been listening to The Sleep Is a Skill Podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday, I send out the Sleep Obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet.

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Fun Facts. I've never missed a Monday for over five years and counting. And it contains everything that you need to know in the fascinating world of sleep. Head on over to Sleep as a skill.com/newsletter to sign up.

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