220: Julie Westervelt, Founder of Sleep Crown Pillow: Why This Over-The-Head Pillow Could Be Your New Best-Friend At Night!

Welcome to the Sleep As a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep as A Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world. Thinks about sleep.

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Each week I'll be interviewing world-class experts, ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today.

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To transform your circadian health and by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before.

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Welcome back to The Sleep is a Skill podcast. Today's episode is very special, not just because of our amazing guest, but because we actually recorded this one in person in my place, a rare and cozy treat in this mostly zoom filled podcasting world. I'm joined by Julie Westervelt, the founder of Sleep Crown, and someone whose products quite literally helped.

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Myself and my husband sleep better every single night. Not to mention so many of my clients and so many newsletter readers and people I've shared with this about on social, et cetera. Now, Julie has created a line of thoughtfully crafted pillows, designed not only to support better sleep, but to bring a sense of calm, grounding, and even emotional comfort.

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To the bedtime experience. Now I want to put an asterisk or an explanation about this pillow talk 'cause I'm sure you've, you know, on the journey of improving your sleep, you've heard a lot about different types of pillows. This is not just a pillow that you lay on. This is a pillow that actually lives up to its name, sleep, crown.

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It is crowning your. Head, so you put it on top of your head and on top of your eyes. So we'll get into more about that. But in our conversation, we explored Julie's path from being a lifelong quote unquote pro sleeper, to developing a pillow that goes over your face like I was sharing. Yes, it does go over your face that blocks light m.

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Sound and applies just the right amount of gentle pressure to activate your parasympathetic nervous system. We talk about the science of feeling safe, the emotional side of sleep, how restorative yoga shaped her product design, and how sleep itself can be a barometer of the state of our lives. Whether you're someone struggling with sleep, navigating grief, managing migraines, or just looking to add a little more softness to your nighttime routine, this one is full of nuggets that might surprise you.

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So let's get into the podcast, but first, a few words from our sponsors. Please check them out. They actually really do keep this podcast running. Important question. Can you see the hand in front of your face in your bedroom? If so, you need to hear about our sponsor who is revolutionizing the blackout shade space, and finally making it easy and affordable to get a truly blacked out bedroom.

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If you wanna give it a try, go to buy optimizers.com/sleep as a skill and use the codes. Sleep is a skill to get gifts with your purchase, and this is a limited time offer, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the results. And welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. I am so delighted to have my guest here in our.

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Very own home. So this is just a nice departure from some of the, you know, virtual Zoom podcasts and what have you. But thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Oh, I'm thrilled to get to be here. Especially like you say in person. Yes. So nice. Exactly. It's so nice. It's so nice. And before we hit record, we were discussing, my husband was setting us up with his cameras and everything, um, and saying how much he loves your product, partly because he's always cranky.

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That will get, you know, different, you know, things to test and it'll be one item to test. And yet you've always been so thoughtful two different times based on when we moved at different periods to make sure we're hooked up with the sleep crown for both of us. Yes. So he was very grateful in his New York straight talking way of.

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You know what's wrong with these other companies? Like why don't they start my hat? I love it. I was like, I'm the only one That's nice to you. Serious. Yes, exactly. Seriously. So thoughtful. Exactly, yes. So I love it. So how did you, you know, and, and our intention too with this podcast is certainly always to help support people in getting the best sleep of their lives and.

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We want to provide information around things that can make a difference. And I know this was my understanding, it's like a labor of love in that this helped support your own sleep. So yeah, how did this all come about? Yes, so. I have a pillow company. Yes. And it is, it's kind of a unique one. Sounds a little strange.

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It's called sleep crown pillows. Yes. And the pillow that kind of differentiated us, that we launched with actually is called the classic. And it's a pillow that's made to actually go over your face. Yes. So it blocks out light like an eye mask. It muffles quite a bit of sound. Um. Like earplugs. Yes. And it just gives a little light touch of gentle pressure, which is a, a trick that I know that helps your body relax for sleeping.

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Yeah. Um, and so we, we launched with one product. It. Really took off. And since then we've added some more and kind of filled out our product line. Just really listening to our customers and kind of following what they asked for and what they want. So we started with the classic, then we made a travel version.

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Yes. Now we also have just a traditional under the head pillow, the queen pillow. Amazing. And uh, and we just most recently launched the mini body pillow, so, oh my gosh. Okay. And was this for you? Anything? Like were you struggling with your sleep at the time or was it just like you looking to improve your sleep?

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Or how did that all come about? So it is something that I've done my entire life. Really? Yeah. I've always been just a pro sleeper. Like that was my role in the family. I was like, that is amazing. The girl that would just be asleep all the time. Yeah. But I just, I always had this little. Thin down pillow that my grandmother gave me when I was younger.

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Sure. And it was like super squinty. Yeah. And I would just put it over my eyes and like form a little tunnel around my nose and, and I think I just kind of came to it. Naturally. 'cause I, it blocks out light. Yes. I'm very sensitive to light and sound. Same. Yeah. And so, and then it would also kind of drape around by my ears and muffle out sound.

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And I just loved it so much. Yeah. It felt so comforting to me. Sure. And I never really knew why. And then I, in, in my older years, I started studying yoga. I taught yoga here in Austin for. Like 10 years. Wow. And I started studying the principles of restorative yoga, which is really minding the body, posturing the body.

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Sure. Um, using props to weight the body and position the body to let go on its own. And so. It all clicked to me like, oh, well that's why it feels so good when you block out the light. You make it really dark and quiet. Yes, and the little bit of pressure here is the whole thing we can talk about. Sure. But there's science behind that.

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Um, this space of the body being just gently pressured, that really relaxes the body. Um, and yeah, so those things all kind of came together and I was like, oh, it's a thing. It's a thing. There's a reason behind it. Yes. That's great. Did you start that? With like your yoga practices with people like Oh, kind of putting something on there, or was that outside of it?

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Yes. Okay. Definitely. I mean, even during Shavasana Yeah. All types of yoga. Mm-hmm. A lot of times people, you know, tend to put like a, either like a little eye pillow or even a hand towel over their eyes. Yes. And just that little gentle touch is very soothing. Mm-hmm. For the body, it like signals your nervous system.

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That it's safe to actually surrender and let go. Yeah, and it triggers the body's parasympathetic nervous system. So then the breath begins to expand and slow, and then the heart rate. Um, slows as well. And so those things really work together too. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah. Is it mainly for the eyes or the forehead?

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Because like, I'm trying to think of ways that I can start bringing that more into the rest of my life too. Like, so I become, for instance, I've become obsessed with this PMM F mat. Like I've got the mat over here. Oh my. Yeah. It's so good. So good. Yes. And stacking, stacking multiple things. Yes. Yes. 'cause you're making me think I'm like.

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I'm like, but can I do that? 'cause I, um, I use like the brain tap, so then the blue is going to your eyes and I'm like, could I do it on the forehead too with it? Just, would that be helpful? I sliver definitely. And you know, I love that layering lots of things. 'cause it's usually not just one thing as you are an expert in So true.

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You know, everybody's so different. Yeah. We have tons of nerve endings all throughout this space of the head, the eyes, the forehead. The scalp. Yes. And so. And also everybody has a different preference for touch. Okay. So for some people it's just feather light. Some people really need a lot of pressure.

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Interesting. So it's just finding that little space. I know with the brain tap there's a hard cover. Yes. Over the eyes. Yes. But you could just plop like your sleep crown kind of just rested over the Oh, I should do that. Crown of your head. The crown on my head. I think I might test that out. Right. Because like it's wonderful to have that.

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At night. 'cause now I've become like, I can't sleep without you. Like, well, I shouldn't say can't, but I would really rather not, you know? So I was just sharing that we're going to Nashville next week, so I'll be packing the to go, you know, bag with that because it has a little, the travel size one is wonderful for the road.

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And so having that for night, and then, I'm trying to think now as you're sharing with that, that would just be nice. I'm really trying to practice even more downregulation techniques throughout the course of the day. And so, especially I experienced this last year. All this growth with our business and travel, and I was starting to neglect some of these very things that I know to do and yet was not doing.

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So I'm really trying to take those more seriously. So adding some of those in might be nice. So it's both the forehead, the scalp, the eyes eye, all of these things, the eyelids that we wanna get some or not, that we could be supported by having some of that added pressure. Yeah. Okay. And I'm always. Careful about using the term weighted pillow.

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Okay. A lot of times people describe a sleep crown as a weighted pillow. Good point. And people think of it as being as heavy as a weighted blanket. Yeah. And it is absolutely not. No necessary to have that much weight on your face. It's, yes. It's a, have you ever had a, um. What is a myo, myofascial mis, misogynist.

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Just like a kind little tiny tapping touch. Yes. It's, it's soft. Sure. That part of our bodies just need the most gentle activation. Mm. But nothing more because that we were talking earlier too. We both, yeah. Are. Unwilling members of the migraine club. I was gonna ask you about exactly that. Yeah. Yeah.

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Because it's so often people are, like you said, the light sensitivity. Huge. So was that part of your journey too? Definitely. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I've gotten a lot of great feedback from customers that it's been, it's just a nice tool when a migraine strikes Yes. You know, unfortunately doesn't prevent them from, from happening.

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Yes. But, um, when it happens sometimes just to have something to. Sometimes the light and sounds are really stabby and sort of just have kind of like something to soothe that out. And then also just that gentle touch of pressure kind of just gives this baseline of grounding. Totally. Okay. That could be helpful.

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Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 'cause um. I've seen different products for migraines and that involve sleep and light, but I have some concerns about some of 'em. So some are like these little, it's almost like a little tent type thing. Yes, and I like the concept, but when I've tested them, the air quality I am concerned about like it.

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Because you're just kind of breathing within there. Recycled air. Yeah. All night. 'cause there's like, there's like a mm-hmm. A curtain or something. Yes, exactly. Oh yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I don't really love that. I know. 'cause it, at first glance it's like, oh that's brilliant. Yeah. Like, you know, you can bring it anywhere.

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Like, I tested traveling with it, um, and I was like, this is gonna be great because I was at this Airbnb and it was a little light or whatever, and I had to. Yeah, tos it. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's yours, you have no concerns of that? Yes. It's completely fresh air breathing. Yes. There's a a little curve at the bottom that kind of aligns over the bridge of your nose, and so your mouth and nose have plenty of space.

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Plenty of, exactly. Yeah. Okay, so this could have kind of multiple things that could be supportive for sleep and reasons, and you said there's even some science behind this as well. Yeah, I mean, we kind of fall under that same umbrella of science as the weighted blanket. It's that, okay. Deep pressure touch stimulation.

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DPTS. Yeah, so I, you know, while I haven't gone all in and done a specific sleep crown, sponsored sleep study, I do get lots of, uh. Uh, ora ring scores for my customer. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. What do you see? Lots of sleep score improvements of like, look at this, you know? Yes. And so that's always exciting and just, just the feedback that, you know, the anecdotal feedback that I receive has been overwhelmingly positive, and it is, it's not.

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Just a, it's become this thing that isn't just to help your sleep. I think it's an interesting, it's almost like a lovey for adults. It's a very soothing comfort item. Yes. And so I do have these other little pockets of, not just, does it make you feel, you know, does it protect you from your ambient environment for bedtime?

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But also it's been a big item for. Grief for people that are experiencing grief just to have Sure. Something nurturing. Um, and obviously we just talked about migraines, but there's, there's some interesting little other pockets of that is interesting. You say the grief thing. 'cause um, and it does make me think so for weighted blankets, and I don't meaning to collapse because I know they're very different products, but it does, does make me think of for weighted blankets.

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We've seen that for one, for single people liking the weighted blanket experience of like somehow, almost like the hug piece or just like, yes, something comforting. But the grief makes a lot of sense too. It just, it does. There's something very comforting about it. The other thing I keep doing that Blake does not like is I keep stealing his throughout the night.

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'cause he's just a wild man sleeper and so sometimes they go take that. Yeah, exactly. So I'll have my sleeper on and then I also will sleep with, and it feels like. I don't know, some sort of, it's like my adult teddy bear or something. Exactly. Like, yeah, I hear that all so good. That's like the number one piece of feedback that we receive is Yeah, I had one and then my husband stole it.

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My child stole it. Yes. You know, so there's a lot of sleep crown thi going on out there. Exactly. But I do, I do think that sleep is, it's so many things. Yeah. And it's such an intimate act. Yes. And it's a really vulnerable. Time. Yeah. Of your life every night. It is and and especially for somebody that's experiencing big emotions.

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Yeah. Whether it's grief, sadness, loss, all of those things. Yeah. Is such a vulnerable. Solo experience to get in the bed and be like, okay, now it's time to just go to sleep. Yeah, exactly. And it's just something that we take for granted. And so I think that just having a tool. Mm-hmm. And it's not anything that you have to time or take or remember, it's just there in the bed and it just is something to make you feel a little less vulnerable.

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Yeah. And a little safer. Yes. You know, because that's. Ultimately what we need to feel in order to surrender and let go to sleep. Yes. As we need to feel safe. Safe. A hundred percent. I mean, on all these episodes, so commonly that word safe comes up time and time again. And you know, one of the things I'm really trying to language more commonly is that this opportunity to reframe sleep as kind of a vehicle or a signal for the workability of our lives and kind of looking at sleep as a barometer of the workability of our lives 'cause.

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You know, for all of us. Mm-hmm. Even, you know, I'd assume for the pro sleepers as well, at certain points there might be times where it's like more natural and times where it's not as natural. Just like certain rough patches or things that we might see, even if we're tracking like, oh, interesting, my heart rate's a little bit higher, my HR v's.

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Not faring as well. And so it can really provide this feedback loop and opportunity to, for kind of personal growth and development by utilizing this aspect that we do every single night. And so having some of those tools and resources at our disposal, like the sleep crown, like these things that are available to help support parasympathetic response and feeling more at ease and safe.

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Just invaluable in these modern times, you know? So, yeah. And you, and all of your experience as a resource, uh, I mean, that's such a beautiful way to look at that and describe that, because when something feels off like that, yes. It's easy to just make a, place, a judgment on it. Yes. Like, oh, there's something wrong.

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Or in instead of saying, oh, something is shifting because life is not. Linear and perfect all the time. So just because you're good at something or it happens naturally? Yes. Just looking at it is exactly what you just described as a, as a, like a mirror or reflection of what's happening in your life. And there's a, that's exactly the word, that's a, a real gift to your clients.

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Um, and, and well thank you for saying that. Well, I'll tell you, it is a hard one, new perspective because I've definitely had the times in my life where it was, you know, when in the throes of insomnia, which I aim to have people to kind of set aside that label, you know? 'cause then they can live into it.

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And I've been there too, like, oh, I'm an insomnia. But during those times, there can be, can feel very. Powerless and helpless and I'm stuck like this and there's no silver lining, nothing good. There's something wrong with me. Something's wrong. Yeah, something's wrong. Oh my gosh. And one of the things that I'm committed to helping support people in is kind of this ability to see the gift in these times.

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Even though it can feel like, what is the gift? There's no, we have to add this stock, but there, I really believe that there's this opportunity on the other side. 'cause I had never had more growth and development than the times when I struggled with sleep. And certainly also from a place of sometimes desperation.

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You're like, I will do whatever, anything, you know, gimme this pillow, gimme this thing. Like, I don't dunno. I'll try, gimme a pill even if I'm not a, well, you know, I've been there too. Exactly. And so, thankfully. And I'm grateful to have landed in some of these conversations, you know, with people like yourself and others that have looked at these different, um, available ways to support ourselves.

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Because I could have, I feel like I dodged a bullet bullet and could have easily gone down a path. Yeah. Of now I'm dependent on all this stuff now, whatever. Now I'm just knocking myself out and not exactly going through healthy. Stages of sleep that are necessary. It's just, yeah, exactly. Yes. And now that you're talking too about the yoga, that is interesting 'cause um, I guess I hadn't looked at sleep kind as a way of like, now it's making me see it as a possible, uh, even more holistic approach, like using it.

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I haven't thought about like a prop that whole yoga nidra or the kind of ways of that being thoughtful about that and the fact that you do that is really interesting. For you in your own life. Well, and actually we might be shifting over shortly to some questions around how you're managing your own sleep, so I definitely wanna hear that and how that might go along with yoga.

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But before we get there, are there any major things that we left out when you think about this big topic of. Sleep and being supportive of sleep and what you created with Sleep Crown, anything we wanna touch on? I think in general, just to recap kind of what we've, yeah. Talked about. I think Cocooning the body is one of the yes best.

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It's the most, one of the most natural ways that we can support our sleep. It's one of the easiest ways to make ourselves feel. Safe. Almost like a little kid being tucked in by their Yes. You know, caregiver, loved one. Um, just really using props, whether it is, if you don't have a weighted blanket, you can use stacked multiple blankets.

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Yes. You know, really getting tucked in where you feel, um, like you're in a little. Sleep cocoon or like in a little pod. And, um, I have a, there's a friend here that lives in Austin named Jade Branch. She's such a fun Yeah. Content creator. Okay. And she calls it her adult DACA tot what, which is, um, DACA TOT is one of those little kid toys that you like lay on the floor and it has like a.

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All the stuff that they can play with underneath. And so she makes an adult one for herself. That's like, she puts all these pillows, it's like a pillow fort, and then she puts the sleep crown on top. That's so great. And so just having that, that feeling of support, sometimes just the feeling of support makes you feel supported and Totally.

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And you can feel safe to sleep because there is so much sleep, anxiety in the, and it's just absolutely getting. To epidemic levels. Like it's not getting better, it's getting worse. Exactly. Yes. So well just trying to figure out how to, we all need to be soothed. Yes. And we all need to let that go as part of our structure of our day, because otherwise our nervous system is just on high alert all the time, so.

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Totally. Okay, well actually you just inspired me too. 'cause, um, one thing that I've been playing with, experimenting with is. Have you ever tried the Scandinavian sleep methods with the two duvets? Oh, yes. Have you tried this? I, I haven't tried it, but I just saw this on Did you on TikTok where? Yeah. So that you have two zones?

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Yes, exactly. And when Blake and I were traveling, um, in Budapest, I remember there was like one Airbnb we stayed at that had two of those. But I don't know, somehow I don't. I don't remember the whole experience. It was very quick and it was brief. Um, oh, I know why We don't remember that. Because that was actually in the midst of when I was struggling with sleep.

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So I think it was just like it was war zone. Yeah. Everything wasn't working. You know, it's not the best was empowered lens. Uh, that's why. So I do wanna try it now in a different mindset. And the reason you made me think of it with cocooning is because in some of, um, what people report is they love the fact that each person can kind of cocoon like a burrito with each individualized duvet.

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So to have that little burrito effect with the sleep crown and the whole thing. Yeah. I feel like that that could be wonderful. I think it's brilliant. Yeah. I do. 'cause I think we, we do each need our own little Yeah. Instead of zone. Exactly. Yes. We really impact each other between. Snoring and turning and tossing and noises and getting up to go to the bathroom.

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Yeah. And we impact one another. When you sleep well, one of our top most listened to podcasts is with, um, Dr. Wendy Trel, who wrote Sharing the covers and the whole aspect of, you know, this tug and war, but certainly snoring and the kids and the pets and the whatever, and all these things that can impact our sleep.

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And certainly sleep Crown is a beautiful, you know, kind of compliment to that because anything that can help buffer some of that noise, some of that, you know, the light piece of just all the things that could be going on with other individuals too in our bedroom and different schedules and stuff, you know, anything that can support that is really, really great.

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Yeah. So that's great. And then one more thing I did wanna just Yeah. Mention and just. Tout is that we are, our products are all made by hand here in, that's Austin. What were you telling me that made America just the way we're supposed to? Oh my God, that's, you had told me that a few years ago, I think.

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Yeah, and then I didn't know if anything changed and you guys keep growing and whatever, so it's still we're, it's. Same team, same materials. We haven't changed a thing since started. Oh my gosh. The tariffs don't matter to you, I guess. Well, I guess that's, they still kind of do, still do unfortunately, even though we're trying, like doing our best to do everything in America.

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Yeah. Some of our raw materials like the had to come from other places. Yeah. The organic bamboo fiber. Oh, right. That's where you get it. Yeah. And so I don't really have another option, but we do buy the fiber there in, in China and then we actually knit our own fabric in LA Wow. And diet. So it, all of that is under our, you know, that's great eye and yeah, it is great because we are, we, between us and all of our suppliers, we're really touching a lot of lives and I, I do.

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Really see the importance of that. Sure. Um, you know, it does lead to a higher price point product and so I always like to mention that that is why, 'cause it's a very intense process that we do and it's all Oh yeah. Done here by Americans. So, oh man, it's important and. I'm just so grateful that I have customers that value that and yeah.

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Wow. And you said, how long have you been doing super? I started it in 2017. 2017. Almost eight years. Geez. So cool. Yeah. Okay. And then now the new products and the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We keep growing and I'm just living the dream. Yeah, it sounds like it. Exactly. If you've tuned into the show or followed any of our content here at Sleep as a Skill, you may have heard that everyone that we work with wears the Ora Ring, and as a result, we have amassed a very large database of Ora Ring users and get to see what really moves a needle for people when it comes to their sleep measurably.

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You know that like Throt, 15% off and even 45 days of access to their meditation app. So you can start building sleep friendly rituals from morning to night. Now you can just head on over to www dot mud water. Spelled wt.com/sleep is a skill to grab your starter kit and start supporting your energy and your sleep.

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You can also check out in the show notes for that same link as well. Well, as you're living the dream, excited to hear how you're managing your own sleep and you've been asleep, bro, for all this time, so that's fantastic. So our first question is, what does your nightly sleep routine look like right now?

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And I know you travel and stuff too, so if anything's different when you travel or anything relevant that can be supportive for people, just let us know. Yes. So we were just mentioning that we both have been traveling a lot. Yes. And plan to, and so always trying to manage the time zone. I'm just coming off of a really big trip where I was on the other side of the world, so I'm still kind of recovering my from jet lag.

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Uhhuh, take your time for all that. Yes. Use, um, time shifter, the app for that. Do that. Okay. Yeah. Is it helpful or, I, I, sometimes it's tricky. I understand. I think, yeah, I think the ti it, it does incorporate the layover like the, you know, time in other airports and stuff, but a lot of times it was, sometimes I just wanted get on flight and actually sleep and it was like, stay up for four hours and then so it was like, I forget this.

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Yeah. I, I get that feedback a lot. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well, the only thing I would add in, we tried it. Yeah, totally. The only other thing I could add in potentially. So one thing that I have my druthers about is that it doesn't mention meal timing, which really frustrates me. So what you can also add in is even if you're like, listen, I wanna sleep at this point, I don't wanna sleep at this point when it's telling you to sleep, one thing you could do is aim to have that be a fasting time.

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And there's actually new research. There was when we just were at sleep 2024, you know, entire conference around sleep. Mm-hmm. Do you ever go to that? I haven't been. Okay. But I'm, I'm gonna go next year. It might be interesting. Yeah. Okay. Well maybe we can coordinate or something. Um, much more academic leaning and medical leaning.

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Yes. But. But having said all that, I think there's, one of the things with that is it's just a whole other world, especially if we do like the academic side of that. When we talk about jet lag, there was new research to support that. That meal timing piece could be just as impactful as the light dark elements.

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Yes, too. Which is, yeah. So having that, just having experience that myself, I completely. Validate Right. Exactly what you just said. Yes. The meal timing is so it for scooching your schedule, it's such a signal to the body. Yeah, exactly. About, okay, here's dinner time, so I'm gonna sleep, you know, three or four hours after that.

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And so it's hard to it. On the, the airline that we were on, we just went to Indonesia. They were feeding us like every two or three hours. And so it was, yeah, some of those, you gotta skip some of those. You gotta, exactly. Just a little strategy. So even if you're gonna be like, well, I'm sleeping a little off the thing.

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If you can add in the meal timing or when it's supposed to be light, then you can eat during that period. That can be helpful too. But anyway, sorry to disrupt, but so it's, oh, no, that's good. Okay. So during normal times. Yes, exactly. I, I, I really value the importance of having the same bedtime and wake time as much as possible.

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I know life is always throwing changes, but I really, I, I know that I require about nine hours of sleep. Yes. A a night, which is a lot. Totally sure it's more than most people. Yeah. So I really try to sleep about 10 to seven. Yeah. Um. Every night. And then, so having just a con as consistent a bedtime and wait time is possible.

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Is huge. It's so huge. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the places we start with everyone, so. Brilliant. Yeah. And then, um, after dinner, really considering my environment, my external environment, yes. Like lighting. I know you were a big fan of what we talk about. Yes, definitely. So, I, I really just love to find the perfect, you know, no ev overhead lighting, really that warm amber glow.

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And in my bedroom now I have, um, not just, uh, salt lamp, but also I got, um, Himalayan sea salt light bulbs. And so yes, putting those in the two lamps, so it's a really pink glow and it just makes me feel so. Happy in there. Oh, that's great. When I go in my, it's very white, but then the, when the light. Are glowing.

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It's just so beautiful. Oh, I love that pink light. Totally. We've got some in the kitchen. Oh, you do those little like, you know the nightlight ones? Yes, I saw that. So cute. Yes. Actually that was part of my husband because he was like, we're not gonna have it all, like red light brothel in this house, you know, because we just moved in here and it's true.

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Like I do feel like there is a different vibe that comes to that. And yet still so supportive of the nervous system. Yes. So you can have it all. It doesn't have to. Feel like, you know, devilish or something. Yeah, yeah. And not just softness. Yeah, yeah. Like you can, you can kind of sculpt it to what you need, so that's great.

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Okay. Yeah. So lighting, temperature, everybody's a little different there too. I like setting my temp at 71. Okay. That's what works for me. Yes. Um, oh my God. I would still be so on you to like bring it down lower. I know, but yes, I, I know I'm such a coldy, I'm like, yes, exactly. And. A sensitive to, well, also on light.

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Yes. Um, I have blackout curtains in addition to wearing a sleep crown. Yes. Um, so trying to just completely, completely seal out all the light. And then, um, I am. E even more sensitive to sound than I am light. And so I have a fan on for ambient noise. Um, I have, I use 12 Hour Sound Machine podcast to know that.

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Okay, sure. It's, that's a great, I love, I've got to meet Brandon Reed, the founder Oh, wow. At South by Southwest. And he's working on an app now too. Um, I think it's already out, but I just really love. His, it's brilliant. I mean, just so simple, but, but so simple and so effective and helpful. Effective. Yeah.

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Yes. And he's, he has huge success, so I'm so happy for him. That's great. Um, so I've got all that, you know, and then my air conditioning too, so there's just lots of, we're like that with going on, so wind tunnel situation. Us too. Totally. I literal got my sleep crown on top of that. Yes. So there's no noise that's penetrating this sleep space.

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Yes. So good. So there's all that for the external environment that I also consider my internal environment. Mm. I'm a huge bath person, so Oh, okay. I love a warm bath at night. Yes. Just bringing everything down, you know, the lighting's nice. Maybe some candlelight. Just really soothing all of my senses. Yes.

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And um. I also use a higher dose red light. Oh, great. Um, I have a, it's a face mask, but I, a lot of times I'll just put it on my chest or my tummy too. Just something to just kind of warm and ground. So that's nice. And then as we mentioned, I just love all the cozy baby things, just trying to make myself just feel so nurtured and Totally, and safe and tucked in so I have a blue.

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Weighted blanket. Oh, yes, Elizabeth. Yes. Yes. EI think Elizabeth is who connected us originally. I think so originally too. I know. I was trying to go back in my mind of how that kind of had all come together and I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I love her so much. She's amazing. And we get to do a lot of conferences together, so we're, we're always neighbors at like the biohacking conference and stuff, so we're big fans of one another.

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Totally. And then I like to sleep in. Attitude. Bamboo sheets. Ooh, yes. It's like attitude, but with an e attitude. Yes. It's, people ask me all the time to make sheet bamboo sheets and I'm like, I don't need to. 'cause attitude exists solve, and they're just the best. I love getting into that feeling of those sheets.

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It's just. Ugh. Just spoils my whole, all my senses. I love, love, love that brand. That's a great call out. And then my, um, VO two mouth tape. Oh, oh sure. Yes. Also an Austin brand. Exactly, yes. It they're fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Such a fan. Also, Lindsay and I, um, collaborate often and I actually sell VO two mouth tape on.

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The Sleep Crown website 'cause Awesome. So I, I'm, I know that your people have been educated about how tap Yes, sure. Again and again, but it's just, um, you know, encouraging nasal breathing is the best way to go. Yep. And it, it inspires your body to create, to send more nitrous oxide through the body. Yeah.

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Which has a whole cascade of great health benefits. And it also helps. You snore less. Exactly. Great. Yes. All wins. Yes. So yeah, so I use that every night. And then if I'm still just having a really hard time, sometimes I will have a, an early bird, low dose gummy. Yes. Which is also an Austin brand. Oh, oh, nice.

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Um, that I love to get to work with. Yeah. Um, and it, it's just, it's a, a super low dose. It's legal in all 50 states. Yep. And it just. Helps me sleep sometimes. Sure. I don't, I I try not to take things. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, but if I do, I feel mm-hmm. I, I love those. I love their company. I love their mindfulness and their whole brand.

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So that's another thing that I love. Do you line that from like, um, we're talking about some of like. Hormonal shifts and stuff, like, do you have that aligned with your cycle or just kind of feel it out type of thing? I definitely, yeah. Yeah. I mean, shifts just keep on coming. Uh, shifts happen. Yeah, exactly.

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Totally get that. Yeah. Okay, good. All right. So yeah, so I think that's pretty much, that's beautiful. All the like kind of. Tools and timing. Yeah. And things that I like to consider. Yeah. And I do have a very specific kind of routine that I. Used to signal my body to wind down. And o obviously I am smothered in sleep crowns.

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I've, I was gonna, yes. Sea of pillows around. Let's be real. Yeah, let's talk about cocooning. Forgot to mention that 27 sleep crowns. Yeah. I kind of have just one of each, right now I have a mini body pillow. Do you, um, that, 'cause sometimes I turn on my side, so I like having it to kind of. Side lie by, and then I have a queen, a classic, and a traveler.

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So they're all just in various kind of, oh my gosh, places around my head. Oh, that's great. So much. And when you travel, you always take the traveler, I'm assuming, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, if I'm, if I'm driving, I'll take more. Oh, if I'm flying, I just take, I only the traveler to Indonesia, and I was so excited to come home and be my pillow.

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I've become that person. I'm like, that is amazing. I love you. I missed you. Yes, I so get that. Wow. Okay. What a great visual. I feel like Talk about another chat GBT opportunity. We need to have like, okay, let's get a picture of the surroundings of all the, all of them sleep round. Okay. So we've got a picture of your night.

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So what might we see in your morning? Sleep routine with the idea that how you start your day can impact your sleep. Yes. Yes. I love, I mean, I've listened to your podcast and Oh, I've learned that from you too. Oh, good. Yes. Like going to sleep at night starts in the morning, so Totally. Yeah. So again, that consistent wake up time as much as possible.

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I'm up at, I'm, I'm up earlier these days because my shipping angels Monday through Friday start at six. So I try to kind of be available if my questions and stuff. Yeah. But, um. You know, in a dream world, I would sleep till seven every morning and, um, I try to start out with just a peek at natural light before I'm going straight to technology.

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Sure, yeah. Um, I like to try to move if I can, like a, a. Just even a quick, I, you know, five minute walk. Yeah. Just to get outside and move a minute and breathe some fresh air. Yes. I would love to do yoga in the morning, but that usually doesn't happen anymore. I get it. Yeah. Until it does later. Later. Um, and then I.

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Lov Bulletproof Coffee. Oh, yes, that's, yes. I start my day every day with little amazing collagen protein powder and some butter in my coffee. Yummy. Yes. So good. So good. And, um, and then just a noon mineral supplement and my water, and then I'm, and then I'm working. I mean, that's one of the things about.

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That I am so grateful and love is that I have a direct to consumer cus um, company. Yeah. And so I'm in touch with my customers all the time. I love getting to talk to them. Um, and also. A website never closes, so. Exactly. It's like all the time never sleeps. Yeah. Yeah. Seven days a week. So it's, you know, I'm pretty much, but I, when you love what you get to do, it doesn't feel like work.

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It's just Oh, oh, that's great. It's kind of a constant part of my day and my life. Yeah. So that's amazing. Okay, so good. And then the third question would be, what might we see on your nightstand or in your environment? Yes. Well, I already mentioned the, um, mouth tape, V two mouth tape. Yes. I've got my little packet there.

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My, um, I have a little packet of dental floss because Okay. Dental hygiene. Very, of course you gotta do the floss before you do the taping up. Yes. Oh my god. You ever see pretty woman back in the day? Do you remember that like dramatic or funny moment where she's like. Flossing and Richard Ge thinks she's like doing drugs or something and she's like, no, you gotta protect your gums like you do.

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Health starts in there. Yes. It's so cute. Yes. Um, and then I have a glass of water. Always. Yes. Because hydration is very important also. You need to do that before you put them mouth tape. Yes, totally. Exactly. I have. A cuticle cream in right there and that I try to put on every night. Oh nice. And um, I am a huge.

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Addict of lip balm. So I have really like 50 different kinds and I'm constantly trying different lip masks and so I like, you know. Wow. I'm always slathering that up. It's everywhere in my house. Oh my gosh. Interesting. Love it. Yeah. And then the, and then the temperature remote is right there. Oh my. Oh yeah.

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Nightstand too, so, totally. Yeah. And then maybe over time we can creep it down a little bit lower. But I understand, I know I have friends, clients, what have you that are always like, no, but you don't understand I'm freezing at like 70 whatever. Yes, yes. But, but are, I know you are. Yes. So, right. I honor what you're saying.

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And I can feel my body changing. And even within the night, you know, I can feel the times where like in the morning it, my body temp rises a little bit right before I wake up. Yes. So what. And where am I supposed to be? Okay. 67. I know. You were like, I hate it. I hate it already. Yes, exactly. Okay, so out of the Sleep Foundation, the recommendation is wild.

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It's from 60 to 67 degrees as part of the recommendation. Now, obviously we're not trying to make people feel wildly uncomfortable or anything. However, what I've found is if we can like. Slowly creep it back and or leveraging technology to do, whether it's like chili, sleep, eight, sleep, yes, whatever, where you can kind of fluctuate through the night when you need it.

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Yes. And actually just literally yesterday, eight just came out with their new pod five. Talk about sound. It has. Sound involved. Acoustic vibration, a blanket, like a whole wild thing. So all that's happening. But then it can also adjust throughout the course of the night and dynamically read your temperature, which especially that is key.

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Yes, so it has this like autopilot thing, so that will adjust as you are adjusting. And, and that can be big too, if. Dealing with sickness, hormonal shifts, hot flashes for people that drink in their, you know, body temperatures all over the place throughout the night. All these things that then can further wake you up.

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It can be addressing all those things. And then it can also be addressing the snoring, like we were talking about too, and then adjust your using gravity. So shift like where you're sleeping. I mean, isn't that amazing? It's nuts. Your bed's like, I got you, girl. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what the bed is saying to you.

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Yes, yes. I know, but for you, the temperature piece would be really interesting. And then as you like, if you're experimenting with that, playing with that, then with like the OA ring or what have you, then seeing some of the changes in heart rate HRV body temperature impacts. Yeah. Yeah. So it could be, don't be texting you my Yes, please.

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Lemme know. Freezing here. Yes, exactly. Okay, so our last question would be. So far to date, what would you say has made the biggest change to your sleep? Or said another way? Biggest aha moment in managing your sleep. Yeah, I mean, I have to just go with my aha moment as being my. Pillow over my face, obviously I make entire personality comedy.

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Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. That will do it. I would say my aha moment though was when I realized I'm gonna make this. That's exciting. And it was a lightning bolt moment. Beautiful. Like it came, I know that's, I remember the morning that it happened, my daughter was still in high school. I like flinged the pillow off my head and I was like, Hazel.

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I'm gonna make this. And she was like, oh, that gets me cold chills. I love that. Okay mom. Yeah. That's so cool. And I started it that day and it just like, yeah, it just animated me. It was just one of those ideas that like filled my whole body and being up and I couldn't not do it. Like I just became, I was like, this is the thing.

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This is totally me. This is it. I'm gonna make it. That's amazing. Yeah. So good for you. That was, I would say my aunt. But so beautiful too. 'cause so many people could like have that moment and then they go take a nap and then they don't do it and they whatever. Like it's a nice idea and yet you not only did it, but did it big and continue to do it and grow and make a difference with all these people.

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It's just so Thank you. Incredible. So thank you. Yes, and thank you. You're like in my life every night, you know? So it's so great. No, so appreciated. And so how can people. One, be a part of your world. Two, check out the sleep crown, all the things. Yes. Yes. So our, my website is sleep crown.com f Fantastic.

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It's like sleep. Going to sleep. Yes. Crown of the head. Yes. So covering up the crown of the head with your sleep crown. So Sleep crown.com is my, um, website. I'm on Instagram mostly. Yeah, at Sleep Crown. Um, I do try to communicate, um, through blogs and newsletters. Very rarely. Okay. I'm so respectful of people's inboxes.

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I understand. Yeah. So I do have a subscriber's list just on my website@sleepcrown.com. I tend to send out. Maybe two to three updates a year, either with a new product release Sure. Or something that's going on, um, that I think might be helpful to people's sleep. Yeah. But I, I'm not one of those people that's just hammering you weekly with right notes.

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So thoughtful. Yes. I'll appreciate that. You're mindful of the nervous system and not bombarding. Yes. Okay. We don't need any nervous system centric emails. Yes. Okay. Good. Okay, so sleep round.com for sure. And then also sleep. Crown on different platforms. Yes. Okay. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. No, and again, thank you for all the work you do and for what you're putting out there, and then to continue to evolve and getting these different products and solving people's struggles and concerns with their sleep.

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So just so important. Well. Right back at you, Mollie. I mean, thank you. We get to, uh, we have so many friends and so many interests in common, and Absolutely. It's such an honor for you to have me on to your Oh, precious podcast. No, I feel it's just, I'm so humble. I'm grateful by it. And thank you. Yes. And also you've even shared Sleep Crown with some of your clients.

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Yes. And I'm just, I'm so grateful for, you know, us supporting one another and lifting each other up at. Really, really meaningful. Oh, well thank you to me. So thank you. Thank you for saying that. And thank you for all that you do. So coming more soon I'm sure. 'cause it sounds like you're gonna just keep evolving, so you'll have to do like a part two of the whole new sleep crown line and the whole thing.

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But yes. Appreciate it. You've been listening to The Sleep Is a Skill Podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level. Every Monday I send out the Sleep Obsessions newsletter, which aims to be one of the most obsessive newsletters on the planet. Fun Facts. I've never missed A Monday for over five years and counting, and it contains everything that you need to know in the fascinating world of sleep.

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