273: Dr. Clint Steele, Author, Speaker & Brain Health Expert: What If Your Brain Doesn't Feel Safe?

 Welcome to the Sleep Is a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie Eastman. I am the founder of Sleep Is a Skill, a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability, and behavioral change. As an ex-sleep sufferer turned sleep course creator, I am on a mission to transform the way the world thinks about sleep.

Each week, I'll be interviewing world-class experts ranging from researchers, doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper. Ultimately, I believe that living a circadian-aligned lifestyle is going to be one of the biggest trends in wellness, and I'm committed to keeping you up to date on all the things that you can do today to transform your circadian health and, by extension, allowing you to sleep and live better than ever before

Welcome back to the Sleep Is a Skill podcast. What if the goal isn't to force yourself to sleep, but to create the conditions where your brain finally feels safe enough to let go? Today I'm joined by Dr. Clint Steele, who has spent more than three decades helping people improve brain function to transform their health.

We discuss why sleep is really a brain conversation, how chronic stress keeps the nervous system stuck in survival mode, and why your morning habits may have a bigger impact on your nights than you ever realized. If you've been chasing better sleep without lasting results, this episode offers a completely different perspective.

Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who's struggling with sleep or chronic stress. Remember, create the conditions for your brain to recover And welcome to the Sleep Is A Skill podcast. I'm very grateful for my friend Dr. Clint Steele taking the time to be here. Thank you so much for offering to hop in and share all things sleep, and I know you got a sleep book coming out.

We just were just discussing- Coming out. Coming out Coming out. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you. Yeah. I appreciate what you're doing. Oh, well thank you so much. And yeah, I don't know if, um, I got to share this or not, but part of the backstory around this company is because over a decade ago I went through a whole period of insomnia for myself, and was traveling internationally at the time, and went to doctors on doctors and was left, unfortunately, often with sleeping pills and not a lot of possible pathways for action.

So I'm so grateful for people like yourself that are getting out information around thing, ways that could empower us in various aspects of health, including sleep. So yeah, maybe a little bit about your story and how you got here. Well, y- you said including sleep, but- Yeah ... sleep is the foundation of health, right?

Well, thank you. If you, if you don't have sleep- Yes. I know I'm biased, but yes ... you don't have health. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I mean, that's where it starts, right? Yeah. You've gotta have sleep in order to have proper health, right? If your brain... Y- you know, even if we just look at the glymphatic system, and if your brain is not detoxifying, you know, you're not getting that junk out in, in, in the night, right?

Your brain can't regenerate. And from the, you know, the, the, for, from where I come from, your brain coordinates every function in your body. So if your brain's not functioning properly, your health is not functioning properly. You're not making proper decisions regarding your finances, your relationships. I mean, it's the whole gamut because your brain coordinates every, everything in your, in your body, but also every decision you make in your life.

So- Yes ... at, at the foundation it's all about the brain, but at the foundation of your brain is sleep, right? Well, listen, again, I know I'm biased, but- ... yes please, say it louder in the back. Right. Mic drop. You see that mic right there just dropped, so we're done. Yes. We're done. Did you see it everybody? Thanks so much.

See you later. Thanks for coming out. Exactly. Yes. Yes. I couldn't agree more, and that's one of the reasons, like often I'll speak with people. They're like, "Aren't you sick about talking about sleep at this point?" And it's, the answer is never. Never, because it impacts, and often bidirectionally so, every aspect of health and wellbeing, and health and wellbeing impacts every aspect of sleep.

And it's just such a fascinating area because you could, I think, argue that just about everything plays a, a role, you know? So purpose, our, you know, kind of our, our paths in life, our vitality, just so much. They, our relationships. It's really a fascinating area of study. I agree 100%. Yeah. You know, because if you don't sleep...

So the way I break it down though is- Please, yeah ... survival mode and healing mode, right? Yes. Sympathetic escape- Fight or flight, or you've got parasympathetic rest and digest. I call it survival mode, healing mode, or thrival mode, right? Mm. You can't thrive if your brain is not functioning properly, and your brain can't function properly if you're not getting proper sleep.

Yes. So that moves you into survival mode. And, and the easy way to look at this is this, is, is if your brain is trying to escape a burning build- or thinks it's trying to escape a burning building- Yeah ... it doesn't wanna sleep The answer is no- Yeah ... absolutely not. Right. Right? And so what I've, what I've come down to is I bring this down to a sleep problem is a brain problem.

Yeah. And it's also a 24-hour cycle problem, and I'm sure we're gonna get into this, but- Yeah, please ... you know, so many people think that their sleep problem is due because they're not taking the right supplement at 9:00 PM at night, right? Or- Right ... uh, in the middle of the night, you know, they wake up at 2:00 AM and they think, "Well, what do I need to, what do I need to take at that point to fall back asleep?"

Guys, that's, that, you're missing the, the point, right? Yes. A night, a, a, a sleep problem is actually, in most cases or many cases, a morning problem, a morning routine problem, so I'm sure we'll, we'll get into that, but- Yeah ... those are, those are my thoughts. I'm so glad you're sharing this. Exactly. And it often, one of the things we can find while maybe at first glance it can feel like, "Oh, no, I, I was looking for just the pill, the supplement to impact this," but in a lot of ways I think we find, especially for people dealing with things like insomnia, difficulty falling asleep, staying asleep, that to shift the focus to the days, to how are you relating to things when you first wake up, what are our routines and the ways that we are relating to stress and other things impacting our days, and then our days often get mirrored in our nights.

So from your vantage point, how do you think differently when you see people dealing with sleep issues? And of course, I know this is a big topic. There's over 100 sleep wake disorders, so lots of nuance here. But in general, or if there's a place to begin, how are you relating to this area of sleep difficulties maybe uniquely than other people are?

Well, I think uniquely it comes down to, a- again, that a sleep problem is a brain problem. Yeah. A lot of people don't connect the two, right? Sure. And what happens is when we're stuck in survival mode, again, I'll, I'll refer to that, if we're stuck in survival mode, our brain just doesn't wanna sleep. It's, it's not...

See, our brain is not designed to sleep. Our brain's primary purpose is to keep us alive, to, to make sure that we survive. Yeah. Right? And so in order for us to sleep, because that's not part of survival, right? Trying to escape a burning building is, is not, not relatable to falling asleep, right? So we've got to down regulate the brain in order for the brain to feel safe enough to sleep, right?

Mm. And so that's, that's how I break this down is, is let's look and see what's going on with your nervous system first and foremost because if it's stuck in sympathetic escape, you're, you're not sleeping, period. And whether that means, and you, you can get into the nuances probably way more in depth than I do, I don't get that in depth.

I just say, "Listen, if you're not sleeping, you're not falling asleep, or you're waking up in the middle of the night and you can't fall back asleep- We've got a brain that is feeling like it's, it's, it's gotta stay in survival mode, and so it's not gonna sleep. So that's, that's the approach I take, is we've gotta first and foremost down regulate the brain, and there's a number of ways to do that.

I'm so glad you led us to that next question, which often, when people are tired, maybe wired, and, you know, kind of at the end of their rope, they say, "Well, maybe I'm just not able to relax. Maybe I'm stuck in this gear, or maybe I used to be able to relax and then I had kids, or then I had a stroke," or something happened, and they're struggling to be able to regain that ability.

So one, is it available to all of us to be able to impact and modulate this? And two, how might we think about steps for modulating that, that sympathetic state? Yeah. I think the, I think the first thing is, y- yes, 100% it's available to all of us, right? Uh, and ultimately, this comes down to stress, right? And when I say stress, a lot of people think emotional stress, and yes, that's part of it.

But, uh, we've also got chemical stress, and we've also got physical stress, right? Uh, and so I'll just give, give you some examples. Like, if you're not moving your body properly, that stresses out the brain, right? If you're not moving your body properly, we're not getting proper, uh, nutrient supply, blood supply to the brain.

Uh, we're not communicating to our brain. You know, if, if... So in the, the example I make is someone breaks their arm, right? Yeah. Uh, someone breaks their arm, they're not moving that joint. Uh, what's gonna happen, number one, to the muscle, right? If it's, if it's stuck in a cast for six weeks, it's gonna degenerate, right?

Mm-hmm. It's gonna start to atrophy. Now, the muscle's still there, but it's not gonna function like it should. In addition, what we find is that after that cast comes off, especially if it's im- impeding the, the function of a joint, we've gotta teach that joint how to function again properly, right? Mm-hmm.

That allows the brain to feel safe. When the brain knows what's going on in its environment, not only external environment, but also internal environment. What's going on with my gut? What's going on with my heart? What's going on with my digestive system? What's going on with my immune system? What's going on with my hip joint, my, my knee joint, my ankle joint?

When those systems are able to move properly and communicate properly with the brain, the brain, the brain feels safe, and it's more likely to move out of sympathetic escape or survival mode. So that's the physical. Also, if you had a, a brain injury, a TBI- Yes, I did ... a, a stroke- Yeah ... these, these are all, these are all stress sores to the brain.

So that's physical- Mm ... stress, number one. Uh, second one is chemical stress, right? We're talking about- Sugar, alcohol, and I'm sure you've talked about that a ton on this, right? Yeah. That all impacts brain function, which impacts sleep, right? Yeah. But in addition, um, we're talking about chemicals, we're talking about pharmaceuticals.

Pharmaceuticals are chemicals we're putting into our body. We're changing physiologic function. That stresses out the brain. The brain has to figure out, "Okay, w- what's going on here? What do I have to do?" Right? So, uh, also toxins. We're talking plastic. Like, the, the amount of toxins we're putting into our body through plastics alone are unbelievable, right?

Mm-hmm. So that stresses out our brain. Yeah. And then third, what, what most people think about when I say stress, they think emotional stress. The thing is, a lot of people don't realize that a lot of their emotional stress comes from a subconscious, uh, at a, at a subconscious level, right? Mm-hmm. A lot of people aren't even aware to the extent that they're experiencing emotional stress.

Yeah. And those come from, a lot of times, believe it or not, uh, a, what I call a neurosynaptic pathway that started before the age of 10, right? Mm-hmm. This is a sy- a neurosynaptic pathway that started based on how you experienced something. So I, I, I give the example of mine. When I was nine years old, I was, uh, molested by a female babysitter multiple times- Mm

over a few months. Yeah. I never told anyone. Mm-hmm. And after about three or four months, five months, she comes in one day and she says, "Oh, we're not doing that anymore." So to me, as a nine-year-old little boy- Oh, something must be wrong with me. Ugh, yes. I'm not, I'm not good enough, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so from nine years old until about the age of 40, subconsciously I had this limiting belief that was causing me stress, you know?

Yeah. I didn't make it to the college that I want. See? Something's wrong with me. Mm-hmm. I, I don't have enough money to pay the bills. See? Something's wrong with me. Totally. Uh, I didn't get the promotion that I wanted. See? Something's wrong with me. Mm-hmm. Right? And so subconsciously, that's stressing my brain out.

So- Yeah ... we gotta look at all those stressors. We gotta reduce those stressors. And, and yes, to your question, everyone can do it, but you've gotta, number one, be aware- Yeah ... and number two, you've gotta implement. You've gotta take the steps. Well, Juan, thank you so much for sharing vulnerably about your experience and just how relatable that can be for different people.

I had something similar happen for myself, too, growing up and just seeing that the tendency for, you know, we see with AI, the programming, how much of a difference that impacts the results that you get when you interact with something like AI, where they have a lot of similarities just in, in our own programming, and sort of this tendency to get stuck in certain patterns- Hmm

of the something's wrong ammunition and collection of data. And yet what you're speaking to is so powerful 'cause once we can start having awareness, "Oh, I'm doing that thing again, doing that thing again," right? Yeah. 100%. That metacognition. Yeah. Yeah. Can make such a difference. You know, it's interesting. I had shared with you that I was just in Jamaica.

I'm gonna be doing some podcasts about it 'cause it was a psychedelic retreat of all things for- Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Doing psilocybin. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was fascinating. And I, you know, brought my sleep tracker, my CGM. I had another couple friends that were also bringing different trackers.

And so far, and this is all anecdotal, of course, but in the processing of what felt very real in the world of past traumas and working through those in such a vivid state, I mean, already it's not that far out, but seeing such a drop in heart rate, improvement in heart rate variability- Hmm ... drop in respiratory rate, improvement in total sleep time.

And, you know, at this point I've been tracking for over, uh, since, uh, 2011, so, you know, done a lot of different things, and yet this has just made such a difference. So I'm sharing that just to underscore exactly what you're speaking to 'cause we might at first glance, oh, our thoughts, our stress, there's gotta be a, a gadget to bypass that or something else.

And yet it is fundamentally so crucial. It makes all the difference. So when you share about these things, do you see as particular kind of modalities or pathways for action for people to think about these or if they're busy lives, kind of this experience of being maybe tired but wired, a place to begin, or maybe people to work with, or how do you think about that?

There's different people to work with, obviously. There's y- you know, but, but ultimately it comes down to- People that focus on brain and nervous system for me- Yeah. Right? It's brain and nervous system- Sure ... because we've gotta fix that first foundationally. And so, you know, I, I love you, you talked about modalities.

You know, I've done, uh, I think four or five psilocybin journeys that are assisted journeys, not just- Of course ... not just out there doing it, right? No, no. It's actually intentional- Yeah ... and, and going through the process and, and that's huge. And for a lotta people, that helps them get into that subconscious because when your brain is, is too stuck in survival mode- Yeah

you, you can't figure out what that limiting belief is. You can't override that pathway a lotta times, or at least- Yeah ... what I've experienced. And so sometimes, uh, the psilocybin, uh, um, or the psychedelics will help get into that subconscious area where you can become aware of it. And then obviously at, at that point, even though you're aware of it, you still have to take the steps, right?

Yeah. Uh, so you know, I think that's big. I think, you know, earlier we touched on a little bit, um, your morning routine. I, I believe- Yes ... that, uh, a, a nighttime problem is actually a morning routine problem, right? A sleep problem is actually a morning routine problem, in, in most cases, not all cases. And so there's a number of things that we go through.

I mean, there's basic physiologic functions that your brain has to go through when it first wakes up in the first, especially first 30 to 45 minutes to an hour, that, that it's, it's programmed to do. And you, if you do anything to screw that up- That's gonna screw up not only your day, you're gonna end up with a, you know, a crash late morning, early afternoon, but then at night, you're, you're gonna be screwed too because you're not gonna be able to, to, um, you know, do what you need to do to, to down regulate and, and move into sleep mode.

Absolutely. So well said. And how we kind of started some of these conversation that, you know, sleep problem is a brain problem, maybe it could be helpful too to, for people to get presence to often if they're tracking or what have you, they say, "Oh, I'm not getting enough deep sleep. Oh, I'm not getting enough REM."

And one, if you believe that we can put much stock into some of those sleep stage classifications on consumer grade trackers, and two, what is happening with the brain in those states, and do you see certain ways... Is that a good way to think about it? Like, oh, I wanna improve my deep sleep, I wanna improve my REM, or is that missing the forest for the trees?

Do we need to step back further? Well, I don't, I don't know that we need to step back further. Sure. I, I just, I take it more general, right? Okay. Someone is not... If someone's not functioning properly during the day, or they're not, they're not waking up feeling well rested, like I, I h- honestly, I, I don't... I'm not huge, I'm not huge into a wearables and trackables.

Sure. I think in a lot of cases, it stresses people out. Yeah. Uh, I was dealing with a gentleman today actually that, I mean, he sent me graphs and, like, I, I bet you there was five pages of details for the last three months of his, and I'm like- Yeah ... "Dude, are, are you not sleeping well?" He says, "Yeah." I said, "Okay, we know enough, right?

We, we know enough." Yes. In, in my opinion. Again- Yeah ... in my opinion. Sure. Again, maybe you, you approach it differently, but I said to him, I said, "Look, we just got, we just gotta figure this out. We just gotta figure out why your brain continues to just stay on all the time, right? It's not feeling safe." And so it came down to, um, he, he doesn't love himself.

Mm-hmm. Like, this is a question I ask a lot of people. Yeah. Uh, and especially females, "Do you love yourself?" Mm. And a lot of times the answer is no. Mm-hmm. And the first time it happened to me, I was shocked. I'm like... I, 'cause I, I don't know that, right? I don't, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know... Well, actually I take that back.

At 40 years old- Yeah ... I looked in the mirror and I said, "I love you, Clint." Aw. And I broke down crying. I broke down crying. Wow. Right? And so- I love that ... um, what I find is a lot, especially a lot of females don't love themselves, but the, the bigger problem is why? Mm-hmm. Why don't they love themselves? Yeah.

And almost always it comes back to some- something that happened before the age of 10, some limiting belief That created this, this, um, perception a- about them and about their life, and sometimes it's I'm a failure, sometimes I'm afraid of rejection because I, I feel like I'm gonna fail. Sometimes it's I'm not good enough.

Sometimes it's something's wrong with me. It, it's something like that, and so we've gotta work, work those things out, I think foundationally, before we can really get the brain to, to feel safe enough to move into sleep. Sure. Absolutely. Well said, and 100% on the hyper-fixation around data at certain points, especially when things are not working, and the kind of the deleterious effects that that could have.

I was just in a New York Post article about exactly that w- around what they're calling orthosomnia, so sort of the fixation on sleep and sleep data versus the subjective experience. So yes to what you just said, and what would be appropriate for a lot of people is kind of that data vacation and/or putting it- Mm-hmm.

Yeah ... putting it away indefinitely. Who knows? And so I appreciate you sharing that, and kind of getting to the root, 'cause it's often not the path to sort of select little metrics to make a difference with. Instead, often it's the maybe bigger picture or the source point of what's going on there, like you said, those fundamental...

Your relationship with yourself and other aspects that could be impacting us. So when you are interacting with people that maybe are dealing with some of the things you mentioned too, TBI, some of these impactors to the brain, are there certain ways that we would address groups like that differently to impact their brain health and then sleep health?

I think there's some little nuances that you change, uh- Mm-hmm ... regarding some of that stuff. Mm-hmm. But at a, at a... A- again, I, um, I tend to be... I keep saying foundationally. I, I- Yes ... I tend to be like a, a foundational person- Sure ... uh, in that let's, let's fix that first and then let's see what's happening, and I think, you know, s- for example, someone has a TBI or concussion, then yeah, we're gonna approach that maybe a little bit differently.

Maybe, uh, maybe there's some more... I, I love photobiomodulation for- Same ... uh, for something like that. Yep. Uh, I love, you know, there's specific, um, supplements. There's some more fringe supplements that I don't know if w- if we can talk about on this show, but- Sure. Yeah ... you know, that are, that are welcome in other countries, right, that are- Yeah

taboo in the United States. Well, this doesn't make any sense, right? Um, but, but they're being used, certain peptides that are being used to help repair the brain and the body. Um, you know, so there's stuff like that out there, I think for specifically if you're talking, you know, brain injury. Um, but yeah, I, I think, I think, yeah, you've gotta, you've gotta look at each person differently.

I don't think... Y- you know, this is the thing, is, is- People will come in and say, "Yeah, well I started taking this and it didn't work." Well, you're a different person, or, "It worked for my sister but it didn't work for me." Well, your sister's a different person than you are, right? Yep. There's different stressors that are gonna affect you.

There's different ways that your brain is going to, uh, gonna deal with these, uh, with these supplements, with these, um, you know, medications, with whatever. Uh, and so we've gotta look at each person, I think, individually. Couldn't agree more. Yes, that bio-individuality 100%. I know people will be interested in what you shared too about some of these, whether peptides or supplements in maybe other countries.

Is there anything that pops out to you that is not getting air time in the States? I think BPC 157- Mm ... uh, is really good for, uh, brain recovery. Sure. In fact, there... I know there's some countries that, um, they, they use it right, right there. Like in the emergency room, someone comes in with a TBI or concussion, boom, they're, they're, they're using some of this stuff right away.

Mm. Uh, so I think that's super effective. Um, yeah, I, I, I just... You, you know, it's sad. We live in a country in the United States where, um, you know, if it's, if it's not- Approved by big pharma or, or someone, then it's, you know, it's, it, it can't be talked about. It- nothing can be done about it, you know? Yeah. And it's, it's, to me, it's, it's nuts.

I couldn't agree more. Okay, so everyone we do bring on the podcast, we ask a few questions about how they're managing their own sleep to see what we can learn from each expert in their particular arena, and how they're managing things. Before we get there, is there... I know this is a huge topic, but is there anything overt or, you know, big that we skipped over or missed in this big old topic of sleep and brain health?

You know, I think there's... Well, yeah, there's a lot of stuff- There's a lot ... that we could talk about, right? Yes. But, you know, first off, medication is not the answer, everybody. So a lot of people think that, "You know, well, I- I've been taking this medication and it's helping me sleep, so I'm good," right? Yeah.

Well, understand that medication, uh, may help you zonk out, but it's not actually helping your brain move into the stages that it needs to for, for the gly- lymphatic system to work the way it should. Sure. Right? And so what happens, and we see this in the research, is, uh, the cause of your sleep problem is still the brain problem, and that's still degenerating, which over time, and we see this with people taking sleep medications, it increases their risk for end-stage neurodegenerative diseases like dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, and more.

So please don't think that because you're taking a medication and you're able to sleep that you're fine. You're not, okay? Hmm. Period. In addition, there are some supplements as well that kind of go along that same line. Uh, again, I'm not, I'm not opposed to supplements. Sure. Uh, I think some of them help.

But again, if they're covering up the bigger problem, then that's a problem. Yeah. Okay? Uh, and I think morning routine is huge. I've, I've kind of talked about it a little bit, but understand that, guys, there's, there's a couple things that happen. Number one, I'm sure you've talked about this all the time- Sure

is that your, your first 30 to 45 minutes of wake time is when your cortisol levels rise, right? 50 to 75% of your cortisol levels rise within the 30 to, 30 to 45 minutes o- of the day. And that cortisol rise is based on a few things, right? Number one, uh, are we stressing ourselves out first thing in the morning?

Okay. Too many people are looking at their phone first thing in the morning, the first 30 to 45 minutes, and they're getting stressed out, right? They're looking at, uh, at emails. They're looking at news. It's like, "Oh, we're at war." You know, whatever. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And what that does, that increases the cortisol levels that are, that are being, that are rising in the first 30 to 45 minutes, right?

Totally. So that's number one. Number two is the release of adenosine, and I'm sure you've talked about- Mm ... this multiple times. Right, yeah. Um, that if you, if you're drinking caffeine in the first 30 to 45 minutes of waking up, you're screwing up that release of adenosine. Mm. And so what happens is, as, as, as you know, and, and many of your listeners know, that caffeine, you know, blocks the release of the adenosine.

And so what happens is after the caffeine wears off, late morning, early afternoon, the rest of that adenosine, that's when we see that crash. Yeah. Right? But in addition, now the adenosine throughout your day is supposed to be building up, building up, building up, causing what I call sleep pressure, so that by 9:00, 10:00 at night, that sleep pressure says, "Oh, it's time to go to sleep," right?

That buildup of adenosine. Well, if, if you don't start building that up until late morning, early afternoon, you're not gonna feel tired and, and sleepy when you should. Okay? So that's another one, another one. Uh, the third one is not getting natural light first thing in the morning. Mm-hmm. Right? So important because- This is gonna cue your brain to start to wake up, number one.

Number two, and, and maybe more importantly when it comes to sleep, is it's gonna set an alarm for your brain 14, 15, and 16 hours later that's gonna say, "Hey, it's time to go to sleep." It's gonna release melatonin, so now you can start to wind down and move into sleep. And then the third one, or the fourth one, is, uh, focusing on...

This one's, this one I love because w- w- there was research actually that, that showed people that had, and they did this with, uh, competitive dancers. And the competitive dancers, they measured their cortisol levels. If they had a competition that day, that first 30 to 45 minutes, their cortisol levels jumped even more- Mm

than if they didn't have a competition that day. Yeah. The interesting thing is this. If they were told they had a competition but they didn't actually have a competition, it still rose. Mm. So that cortisol ro- rise is due to what you expect- Yes ... to, to be stressed during that day, right? Totally. And so what we wanna do is first thing in the morning is we want to make sure our brain feels safe, and so a couple affirmations, guys.

Today's a great day. Today's an amazing day, right? Yeah. It's gonna set your reticular activating system to seek good things for the day. Not only are you gonna help decrease the cortisol rise in the first 30 to 45 minutes, but later on it's gonna help to decrease any cortisol that's going through your system that you don't need because of some nasty thing you see in an experience when there's also good things in the experience, right?

Your reticular activating system is gonna start to see that But in addition, uh, what that does, an- another saying that I love is, uh, "Today is the day the Lord hath made. I will rejoice and be glad in it," right? Mm. Yeah. And see, this is just training my brain to see good things. Am I still gonna have bad things happen today?

100%. Yeah. But my brain is gonna be trained to see the good things in those ins- experiences instead of the bad things. That's gonna help keep my cortisol and my stress levels down so that at 10:00 at night I'm not, I'm not tired but wired, right? Yeah. As you said earlier, right? Yeah. I- it's gonna allow me to be sleepy and be able to feel safe and move into sleep.

Oh, couldn't agree more. That is brilliantly said, and it's so funny. I was just talking to my husband about this just the other night of ex- years and years ago, we- we've been together, like, over 15 years, and in the beginning of our relationship before I went through my whole insomnia period, we were justified and righteous about staying up till the wee hours of the morning and be like, "Oh, we get our best work done, la, la, la, la, la."

You know, living this upside-down lifestyle. And we were just saying last night of how it's just so crazy the shift, and now over such a long stretch of time, this ritual, the value of the anchoring with the sunrise and sunset, right? And just the count-onableness and the workability of your life that emerges versus all this chaos and stay up late, sleep in late, all of that stuff.

And, you know, obviously I'm sharing a more dramatic example potentially, but even on a... One of the things I see on a daily basis with people is something, uh, related to more, like, social jet lag. So maybe they've got a little bit of consistency in the beginning of the week, but then the weekends come- Yeah, yeah, yeah

and it's, right, all off the rails. And that inability for the body and mind to have that predictability and that safety signals that you're speaking to, to predict what time that cortisol pulse is gonna be happening reliably without all kinds of movements or impacting your sleep-wake cycle and fragmentation, and just such a big topic.

So, so appreciate you sharing those foundational components, 'cause we can't say that enough, loudly enough, impactfully enough, and, and can't remind ourselves of this enough. So- Yeah ... so good. So good. I love that social jet lag. I'm gonna use that. Yes. That's awesome. I love that. Is it? Yeah, it's so interesting too, 'cause...

And the thinking for the title being that when we don't have social constraints or things that we need to get to, so if we usually have- societal norms that we gotta get to work on a certain day, or pick up the kids, or whatever. When we don't have those components, those guardrails, then we often go off the rails for many people, and then we're experiencing all the symptomology of jet lag, and yet we didn't necessarily get onto a flight, but we've confused oursel- Yeah

we might as well have gone from New York to California, 'cause now we slept in three hours on Saturday and Sunday, and now we're getting brunch and confusing sleep timing- ... and all these things, right? So yeah. Now, for my girls, we have four girls, and for them it's the FOMO, I think, FOMO- Yes ... jet lag, right?

The, the fear- Yeah ... of missing out. They have to stay up late- Right ... with everyone else until 2:00, 3:00 in the morning, right? Yes, yes. Because otherwise they're gonna miss out, and then they end up sleeping till noon the next day, and then they can't figure out why when the, the weekday starts and they've gotta be at school, they can't fall asleep.

Exactly. Well, what are you thinking? Yes. Like, come on. Exactly, exactly. And anyone who's experienced like long haul jet lag, you just know that the effects are wide-reaching. Like, sometimes you just feel weird. Like you feel like, uh, moody or anxious, or just off, right? And yet many people are not, unfortunately, connecting that the Sunday scaries or all those things and difficulty, like you said, falling asleep to go into that normal schedule into your work week or what have you, could very well be very much related to that jet lag-like experience.

So yeah- Yeah ... really important stuff. Okay. So I'm just excited to hear how you're relating to your own sleep. So the first question we ask everyone is, what is your nightly sleep routine looking like right now? My nightly sleep routine. Yes. So get this. This might be an, a usual, an unusual one for you. Ooh, I love it.

One of the things that, that I use to help down regulate my brain is to balance on one foot. Ooh. Right? That sends communication to your brain, makes you feel safe. Your brain feels connected to your body, body to the brain. That makes your brain feel safe. And so when I go in, I brush my teeth in the morning and at night both, I stand on one foot while I brush my teeth, right?

That helps me feel safe, my brain feels safe and, and secure, and helps me start to wind down. Now- Hmm ... obviously, there's other stuff. Uh, I love to journal at night before bed. Same. Uh, I love to meditate, but I, I really love to focus on, uh... And I, the, the same thing I, I give my clients a lot is just, just something basic, right?

Just three good things that happened today. Yeah. Right? And believe it or not, that actually helps your brain to feel safe, safe to down regulate, right? Because it's not focused on all the problems that happened today. No, we're picking out the good things that happened today. Boom, your brain moves into, into healing mode or, or wind down mode, and, uh, you're better able to sleep.

Ugh, I love that. And it's interesting 'cause now I don't even know how many podcasts we've recorded, close to 300, and I don't think I've heard anyone say that of the balancing on one foot, so that's great. Love that. Bring all of the unique approaches, please. That's great. So and then this one I feel like is very much in alignment with a lot of what you've been saying, which we ask, what is your morning, quote-unquote, "sleep routine" with the idea that how we start our day could very well impact our sleep.

So you know, one of the things I think that's super important is to make the most of your, uh, of your theta state as you're coming out of that light sleep. A lot of people know it- Yeah ... as like that kind of half awake, kind of half asleep, you know? Yeah. That's your theta moving into alpha state, and that's when you are in a hypnotic state.

And so what you tell yourself at that point is gonna be slipped right into your subconscious mind. Mm. And so it's super important. I love using that time when I'm still half asleep to, to just affirm good things. I, to, to look for great things about my life, things that I love about my life, and it really makes me feel good.

And then, uh, I've been reading this book. I- if g- have you ever read it? Uh, Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg. Oh. Dr. BJ Fogg. Sure, yeah. Great, great book. He's the father of habit change, so- Yeah ... fantastic reference. Absolutely. Yeah. So I just read his book, but one of the things I used to tell people, and I didn't know this was in his book, is, is first thing in the morning, I always say, "Today's a great day.

Today is an amazing day," right? Yeah. And in his book he talks about, he says to, "Today's gonna be a great day." I d- I don't like, "Today is gonna be a great day," I like, "Today is, is a great day already." Mm. Right? And so as soon as my feet hit the ground, that's my prompt. Boom, it's coming out of my mouth. Today is a great day.

Today's a great day. I go and brush my teeth. I do some mirror work. Mm-hmm. Right? I look at myself in the mirror every morning. "Clint, I love you. Clint, you are amazing. Clint, you are enough." You. "Clint, you are..." Whatever, right? Yeah. Whatever that, that it feels like coming out of my mouth, uh- Yeah ... that day. But you gotta look at yourself right in the eyes, right?

Mm. Super important. I'll balance on one foot, brush my teeth with my nondominant hand. Okay. Okay? That, that helps my brain to, uh, to feel safe as well. Mm. Helps communicate new pathways to the brain. Hmm. Uh, and then I'll get some water. Uh, I will, uh, take a, uh, a blend. It's called a dementia prevention spice blend.

Um, I've, couple of my videos went viral on that, so a lot of people know me for that. But- Okay ... specific spices that help to protect your brain, help cognitive ability, help, uh, in some cases actually reverse symptoms of dementia, Alzheimer's, et cetera. Uh, so I'll take a spoonful of that. And, uh, and then I will take some fermented, uh, usually sauerkraut, a spoonful of sauerkraut to help with my gut.

And then I will get some light. I'll do some stretching, some light stretching, and then I'll go out for a walk in the, in the daytime. I mean, in the, in the daylight, uh, even if it's cold. So we talked earlier, I'm in Maine. I have a lot of people, "Well- Yeah ... it's too cold here. It's too cold." And I'm like, "No, I'm, I'm getting outside at least for 10, 15 minutes," right?

Yes. Not a lot of sunshine, but I'm still letting that daylight hit, hit my face and hit my eyes. I could go into more detail- No, no ... but that gives you kind of a, a good idea. Oh, that's great. Yes, and love, you know, fellow Mainers, uh, sharing 'cause it's not every day that I get to speak to someone else that resides in Maine, so it's amazing.

Okay, those are great tips. Now, what might we see on your nightstand or maybe in your sleep environment? I have a journal. Earlier we talked about a journal. Mm, mm-hmm. So I've got my journal on my nightstand. Yeah. Uh, I like to write in that. Sometimes I'll write in that in the morning, but usually at night I will always write in that.

Uh, also some lavender essential oil I'll spray, uh, a little bit around. I've also got an essential oil, uh, diffuser. Mm. Um, so I'm big on... Uh, for those of you that don't know me, like, I'm big on helping people prevent and reverse dementia- Yeah ... as well as brain health and stuff. But there's research that shows, uh, if you alternate specific essential oils in this diffuser, uh, for only two hours a night while you sleep, okay, it improved memory by 226%.

Wow. It's crazy, right? So I've got a, uh, essential oil diffuser there next to my bed. I'll, I'll alternate the oils i- in there and run those, and that's, that's pretty much what's on my nightstand. That's great. Yeah. We've seen a through line that often the people that are more settled about the workability of their sleep and their relationship to their sleep, we often see more minimalism, not needing to rely on a trillion things to try to, you know, coax ourselves off to sleep or something.

Great. Okay, and so then the last question would be, so far to date, what would you say for you has made, you know, some of the biggest change relating to your sleep, or maybe said another way, biggest aha moment in managing your sleep? I think the biggest aha moment for me, and I started doing this when I was a teenager, believe it or not, and just kind of by accident, is I used to fall asleep visualizing things that I wanted in my life, things that made me feel good.

So I was a All-American high school football player. I wanted to play college, college football. So I would, I would visualize as I fell asleep things, plays that I wanted to make in football, right? Uh-huh. And it just made me feel good, and I've later learned that that helped my brain to feel safe. Uh, helped to down regulate, helped me move into sleep, helped reach my subconscious.

You know, there's a whole list of, of things there, but, uh, I think that's an a-ha moment is I look back and like, oh my gosh, I used to do that in high school and end up being, you know, this, this great football player, you know- Yeah ... not to brag, but at the same time- No, it's, yeah ... like just to show people like, this is how powerful this stuff is, you know- Right

as you're falling asleep, makes you feel safe, helps you sleep, changes your life. Ugh, I couldn't agree more. I know on your website you had said something to the effect of change your brain, change your life, and it's really evident and also how so much of this can be largely free or behavioral in nature- Exactly

and daily, right? Exactly. So great. Yeah. So great. I think that's the other thing too is, you know, I've, I've got a sleep protocol that I give to a lot of my clients and I, I, people download it for free, and they'll come back to me and they'll say, "Well, yeah, I, I tried it but it didn't work." I say- Yeah ... "Well, there's 10, there's 10 steps, right?"

Yeah. "Did you do every single step?" "Well, I, I didn't do that step 'cause it didn't seem that important, and I didn't do that one, didn't seem that important." You know, you gotta do all the steps, right? Yes. Secondly, they'll, uh, they'll say to me, "Well, it didn't work." Yeah, you did all 10 steps. Okay, how long did you try it?

"Well, you know, I tried it for a week." Guys, come on. Yeah. Like, if you've been having sleep problems for 30, 40 years- Yes ... we gotta give it more than a week, right? Our brain has to learn, it has to adjust. So I tell people at least four to six weeks, like, you've gotta be consistent. And I think one of the things that I find with a lot of people when it comes to sleep is, a- and with, with memory is to- memory too, but they'll, they'll try a supplement for three or four days.

"Oh, it didn't work. I'm, I'm gonna stop." Guys, come on. There's gotta be some consistency there. You've gotta try it. It's not a one, one-and-done thing. It's not a one-time thing. It's a let's try this over time. Let's see what happens, you know, on the chart. It, yeah, it might go up and down, but if it's going up overall, we're moving in the right direction, you know?

Could not agree more. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And speaking of that, is... So for people listening that are saying, "Okay, this is an area that absolutely I would love to learn more about, guidance, research, all the things," what would some of the best ways for people to connect with you further, maybe get that guide or other pathways for action?

I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, my book right now, the, the, the book that I have right now is an Amazon bestseller. Uh, it's 101 Brain Hacks to Prevent and Even Reverse Dementia, Including Alzheimer's Disease. Mm. I- I- every single one of the brain hacks is backed with research, and so that started the whole, whole process.

By the way, if you want that, you can get that at preventdementiabook.com, preventdementiabook.com. But what happened after that was, wait a second, people need to sleep, so now I've got 101 Brain Hacks to Improve Deep Sleep and Brain Longevity, right? Come on. So that's coming out- Yes ... in the next couple weeks, uh, so look out for that, and then that's gonna be followed with a, a whole, a whole theme of 101 brain hacks for different things.

Uh, so there's that. Exciting. Uh, in addition, if you want the sleep protocol, you can go to getbettersleepnow.com, getbettersleepnow.com. Mm. You can download the protocol. It's 10 steps. If you're gonna do it, though, guys, you, you've gotta do all of them, and you've gotta do it for at least four to six weeks before- Yes

you say, "This doesn't work." 'Cause it almost always works. Oh, that's so great. So maybe we can coordinate with your people as far as getting that information in the show notes so that people can get that book too, and that guide, and, and stick with that guide. I, I appreciate that underscoring. Uh, give this time and sleep.

It... Part of what you're speaking to is looking for that, those safety signals, and part of safety is often repeatability, reliability, showing up- Yeah, for sure ... day after day. Yes, exactly. For sure. So good. Well, Dr. Klin, thank you so much for taking the time and for getting this information out. I'm so grateful that things like your content is, are going viral so that we can really have these conversations that we need to be having as a society to prioritize these areas like our brain health, our sleep health, and how they're all interconnected, so makes a big difference.

Well, thank you very much for having me, and keep up the good work. I love what you're doing. You're, you're, uh, saving a lot of lives. One of the things I say is let's save more lives, so- Oof. Yes ... you're helping let's save more lives, right? Ah, I love that. I, I know I'm biased, but I believe that the conversations that we're having right now can make such a difference, so love that.

And yeah, we'll absolutely stay more and more connected. I wanna make sure I follow all the work you're doing. And then the book, and I wanna read that as well, so exciting stuff. Awesome. Great. Thank you so much. You've been listening to the Sleep Is a Skill podcast, the top podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level.

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