097: Danielle Daem, Holistic Nutrition Coach & Speaker: Breaking the Sugar Addiction: A Sugar-Free Expert Shares The Secrets To Better Sleep and Health

Welcome to the Sleep is a Skill podcast. My name is Mollie McGlocklin, and I own a company that optimizes sleep through technology, accountability and behavioral change. Each week I'll be interviewing world class experts, ranging from doctors, innovators, and thought leaders to give actionable tips and strategies that you can implement to become a more skillful sleeper.

Let's jump into your dose of practical sleep training.

Welcome to the Sleep As A Skill Podcast. My guest today is Daniellel Daem and she is a sugar freedom coach and speaker who is passionate about helping women reshape their relationship with sugar. Now, don't tune out if you're not a woman. This really does apply to everyone, but she, in her business line of work, she does double down on working specifically with women.

But of course, sugar freedom applies to all of us and how that can show up in. Metrics as it relates to your sleep cannot be underestimated. I've seen this firsthand when people really mindfully take on this area. Some of the difference in things like their H R V, their respiratory rate, their heart rate, other elements of their nervous system, and how things are being handled and modulated in a powerful way can really.

Form by virtue of what we choose to put into our bodies. And sugar cannot be ignored in this conversation. So I think you're gonna really enjoy this conversation. And real quick background, Danny is in a mastermind that I am in. We're just a small group mastermind with a bunch of us that run cohort programs.

And so her cohort, similar to mine First Sleep, is around helping to support people with their sugar relationship. So I think you're gonna really enjoy. Practitioner approach and what really works on the ground to ensure that people have a lasting and powerful relationship with their food. So little background on Danielle.

Danielle Dame is a sugar freedom coach and speaker who is passionate about helping women reshape their relationship with sugar so they can reclaim control over their health and energy once and for all. Having struggled with sugar addiction herself, she knows exactly. How difficult and overwhelming the journey can be.

Using her extensive knowledge in nutrition, personal experience and coaching. Danny helps her clients discover a new way of living in which sugar cravings and guilt no longer controls their health and life. For the past five years, Danny has been on her own journey with. Food. She's learned the power of eating real food and how building a few simple habits can drastically shift our health and life for good.

She's passionate about empowering people to learn what works best in their unique body and life. Danielle is also the host of the Top rated Beyond Sugar Freedom Podcast, where she dives deep into conversations about the root causes of sugar dependency in total body health and. Now let's jump into our conversation with Danny.

Do you know that Danny does run regular cohorts, and depending on when this is actually released or when you're listening to it, it's very likely that she'll have upcoming cohorts or you can at least get on the wait list for openings for her future programs that you could be a part of. So I get a lot of questions around sleep supplements, and I'm very hesitant to just throw out a whole laundry list of possibilities.

One, I don't think it's the most responsible thing to do. I really do believe in testing to see what types of supplements make sense for you. And two, because I really truly believe that most of the things that you can do to improve your sleep are behavioral, psychological, environmental in nature, and often don't cost a.

However, there is one supplement that I personally take every day and that I do feel quite comfortable with suggesting for most individuals to experiment with because of couple of reasons. It's high safety profile and high rates of deficiencies in our modern society. Some put the numbers as somewhere around 80% of the population being deficient in this one area, and that is magnesium.

So magnesium has been called the calming mineral, and some report that magnesium can increase gaba, which encourages relaxation on a cellular level, which is critical for sleep. Magnesium also plays a key role in regulating our body's stress response system. Those with magnesium deficiency usually have higher anxiety and stress levels, which negatively impacts sleep As.

Now before you go out and buy a magnesium supplement, it's important to understand that most magnesium products out there are either synthetic or they only have one to two forms of magnesium. When in reality, your body needs all seven forms of this essential sleep mineral. So that's why I recommend a product from my friends over at Bio Optimizers.

They have created something called the Magnesium Breakthrough, and taking this magnesium before bed helps you relax and wake up, refresh and energize. And while we don't recommend that you go two nuts on looking at all the sleep stage classifications on all your wearables. I will share anecdotally that many clients have reported improvements in their deep sleep trend numbers.

Again, I don't want you going nuts on the sleep stage classification numbers on your wearables, but I do wanna let you know about that because I know that many of you do reach out on questions of how to improve your deep sleep. So I also love that bio optimizers offers free shipping on select orders, and they offer a 365 day money back guarantee on all their products.

Plus they have a customer satisfaction rating of 99.3%. Very impressive, and you can get 10% off magnesium breakthrough. Again, this is the same magnesium that I use every single. And finally you can get 10% off magnesium breakthrough. Again, that's the magnesium supplement that I use every single night by going to www dot mag m a g.

So mag breakthrough.com/sleep as a skill, and be sure to use the code sleep as a skill for 10% off. And welcome to the Sleep is a skilled podcast. I am so excited to have a dear friend who I have yet to actually meet in real human life, but I have really created like a strong relationship with you virtually, thanks to just.

Mutual other friends that we've created this great partnership and group together. So I've gotten to see your commitment for health and wellbeing and helping and making a difference with so many people. So I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. So thank you for joining. Yay. Thanks for having me here, Molly.

I'm so excited to have this chat with you. I know you came on my podcast a couple months ago. Yes. And I'm excited here to talk to your audience today and, uh, continue the conversation. Yes, yes. This is an important conversation and especially I think the way that you approach this conversation and, you know, we might go into a different, couple different paths today.

Certainly on this topic of sugar and what does that have to do with sleep, sugar and sleep? How are they connected? And I'm hoping you can help kind of bridge that kind of question or two topics. And certainly I've seen it in the work I've done with individuals. Everyone that we're working with again, is wearing the aura rings.

So we'll see when people make dramatic shifts or clear shifts in their diet, one of them being sugar. Then we often see really measurable changes in their health wellbeing, including lowering of heart rate, respiratory rate, often improvements in H R V and other things. Naturally it's bio individual for the degree of change, but a measurable change often.

And then certainly, uh, subjective change in addition to the objective change. So how did you get into this? Uh, tell us all the things and help us connect the sleep and sugar. Yeah, my sugar story.  Yes, today . I love that question cuz it's, it is so profound and I know that you like your area of expertise and I know you've had some of our other guests, like our dear mutual friend Danielle Hamilton probably come on and speak more to the like science behind sugar and sleep.

Yeah. And there's so many pieces, right? But. Ultimately, you know, going back in my journey when I look back, you know, my whole life I've been a sugar junkie and a totally lover of sugar, and it's been a huge part of my upbringing in my life. It's a part of our culture, society. Like wherever you live, sugar is everywhere, right?

So I was no different. You know, we used sugar all the time for everything in my household growing up and. It wasn't until I, you know, flew the coop and I went to university, and then I went into the workforce that I started, you know, paying more attention to what my body looked like and how I felt as a woman, right?

I don't wanna gain weight. And I was getting to the point where, you know, I, I was not able to really out exercise and I was. Starting to get really exhausted and tired all day. And it was years later that I figured out what was going on and understanding the actual connection between what I put in my body and how I feel, and also the possibilities of disease development and my future and all these things really started tying together.

And the biggest catalyst for me that really just started sparking a series of light bulb moments was when my husband and I were on a year long journey in South America. We went traveling, we quit our. Huge big first leap of faith and it was the best thing I've ever done in my life because looking back, that job that I was in was actually the rock bottom of my emotional eating and definite sleep problems and energy problems and mental health problems, and it was just a perfect storm of being absolutely miserable with my life and eating my way through it.

So this trip that we took really started opening my eyes to how people relate with food in other countries and how people actually cook their own meals. Like it was mind blowing. Like, what? Yeah. Why would you be in the kitchen cooking your own meal when you could just go out and get McDonald's, right?

Like, what are you doing? People would go to the market, they knew where their food came from. They were more connected with ingredients and actually using whole real foods to make. For them. A lot of it is necessity because it's cheaper to buy whole real foods, right? We have a backwards here in North America.

But that really started sparking things for me and really starting to connect more with the land and with actually being curious about how food has grown and where food comes from. And you know, you go to these big markets in South America and the meat section is literally just. Like big carcasses of cows and pigs, like hanging over a counter in the middle of this warehouse covered in flies.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, so that's what meat looks like, . It's not in this little styrofoam package. Um, so I just started kind of understanding what real food looks like, and it was in, on that trip that we ate. Like starving traveling students for, even though we weren't students. But I say that yes. You know, for like a good nine months eating nothing but like white bread and junk food and cakes and cookies.

Like things that could, could, didn't need a fridge, right? All the junk. And we were really starting to get bogged down. . And luckily at the very end of that journey, we ended up staying, living actually at a yoga center in the middle of the Columbian jungle. And totally, we were an hour away from any town.

We were literally in the middle of the jungle, so we were living off the land and in that you don't have packaged processed food. So we went through what I call our accidental sugar detox. So we had no idea what was going on, but we were eating whole real foods and our body. Like freaking out. What's going on?

Where's my package to crap? Right. I want the processed food. Yeah. So even though we were having mangoes and fruit juice, but it was all off the land and it was a really beautiful experience. And at the same time I got really sick. We just felt like crap. We were low on energy and I couldn't sleep. I was hungry at weird times that my hunger signals were all wonky.

I was having digestive problems. All the things that happen when we detox from toxic. . I didn't know it at the time, and that really sparked for me. When I came home, I really started noticing that my sugar cravings weren't there anymore as much that I didn't actually want, the things that I thought I wanted when I got home.

And I really just started having those light bulb moments, like, wait a second, like sugar was something I was addicted to and it was actually controlling my decisions around food and thus controlling the future of my health and the life that I wanna live. And I just started having all of these really big life altering shifts in noticing how I.

Nourishing myself, and I wanted to change that. So I went on a journey to do that, and that's kind of where it started about, I think it's over six years ago now. When we came home from that trip back to Canada, started cleaning up our diet. We actually went vegetarian for a while because, well, that was the thing to do back then.

Yeah. I now eat meat because it's, it's. Better for my blood sugar and my whole body. So that really just spurted and I became really passionate about, I started studying nutrition at that point and getting into helping, helping women make healthy changes easily. And I've really continued to dive deeper and deeper layer by layer every year in understanding our root drivers that are keeping us hooked on processed food and junk food and really helping women heal from the inside out with that and creating that sense of a.

Full and easeful relationship with food. And it's not just sugar, it's food in general, right? We all have a complicated relationship with it, and we need to, we need to start peeling back the layers and uncovering what's really going on and heal from the inside out with that. So in that, I know, you know, tying this with sleep, you know, sugar is such a huge culprit when it comes to sleep, and when I'm talking about sugar, I'm talking here about like processed flowers, any added sugar, whether it's organic or not.

Yeah. Still sugar. Maple syrup or cane sugar or, and this is also like cakes and pastries, right? The white processed flowers and really high sugar fruits. Those are the three categories that I really have my clients take out when we do just the basic detox from sugar. So those are kind of the big culprits that are really, you know, when we ingest them, hitting our, our blood sugar.

in a hard way, right? Immediately getting, getting soaked into our bloodstream, causing insulin to be released, spiking our, our blood sugar, spiking our insulin response, and just wreaking havoc on all the systems in the body, including our hormones that we need to sleep, right? Yeah. That we need to come down when we sleep.

I mean, how many of us have maybe listening? You've experienced a sugar high before, right? Have you ever experienced a sugar high, Molly, right? And you're like, oh, for sure I have all this energy and I feel amazing. And then what happens? A half an hour, an hour later you're like, I'm done. So you can imagine how that affects your sleep.

Right. Especially, you know, for many women that I know, you know, late night snacking, right? There's that after dinner eating that, eating really close to bed, that's causing that huge spike in that huge crash that, you know, continues through the night as you're sleeping. And I know you have more stats and data on this than I do, Molly, you know, using the horror ring and, and studying people's charts.

But I know like the effect. Has, you know, especially starting in the morning, right? With breakfast, you're having your big hit of sugar for breakfast, and then you're having it for lunch, and then you're having a coffee and a muffin, and then you're having dessert and you're just on this blood sugar rollercoaster all day.

That is absolutely throwing off all of your, your sleep hormones in your ability to actually stay asleep and to have deep sleep and to wake up feeling rested, and just all the things in between that, right. There's so many reasons why, you know, what we eat really affect the quality of our sleep, and if we want to be feeling rested to be optimal, I mean, obviously you're all here listening to this, this podcast, this amazing, you know, show that you put together Molly, because sleep is such a foundation of health that.

So many people forget about, you know, it is the time in the day when we literally reboot all of our systems, right? And we clear out emotional baggage and toxins from our body and all the stuff. So if we don't actually really prioritize that and know the, all the factors that are contributing to possibly poor sleep as we age, it's just gonna get worse and worse, right?

And we're gonna age quicker, we're gonna develop disease faster. We're just gonna feel like crap and not be able to do the things we wanna do. And, you know, this is obviously you, you all don't need me to tell you how important sleep is. Yes, sure. But there's a big connection. Yeah. So then in this conversation, if we're, if listeners are taking on this possibility of, okay, fine.

So yes, sugar and eliminating or lowering it might help support my sleep results. What do you see come up that gets in the way of people just fulfilling on that? Like what are all the things that we might, all the things be that, that are kind of pitfalls or things.  be aware of and potential tools that we might be able to utilize to make a difference with that.

If people are curious about, oh yeah. Well, if I was to lower the amount of, also, I love how you painted the picture of it's not just like traditional sugar. I think when people sometimes hear sugar, they think pictures of white sugar granules, , when really just so many of those insidious things that we.

might not consider, we might think are a healthy option of, of the bread basket, the this, the that. And so the fact that that all turns into sugar. So really looking at this holistically, looking at our ingredients, whole Foods. So why don't we all just do this? What are the things that come up and how can we support a new action?

Yeah. Yes. Okay. There's like five questions. I'm gonna do my best to answer that. I have a tendency of doing that by the way. Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna nail it. Don't worry. I'm gonna cover all of them. I've got them really, really good. All the questions in one go . That's the last thing you're gonna say. I'm doing the rest of the talking

Okay, bye. No really, really, really important questions though because they do all tie together and this is all like part of the conversation. So the reason why this is so hard to give up, there's a few reasons and it's. Important for everybody listening to understand that first of all, this isn't your fault.

Mm-hmm. , there are a lot of reasons that have been beyond our control that have started a childhood that are, are keeping us hooked on sugar in a really, really hard way. And it breaks my heart. Every woman that I come in contact with and all of my clients coming to me with this. Totally deflated. You know, having spent decades on diet after diet and starting to come to this conclusion like, I must be broken.

There must be something wrong with me because I can't get this figured out, right? I keep trying to get off sugar and I keep binging again and again, and there must be, there must be something, a piece in me that God forgot to put in there, right? That like, I'm broken and that just totally breaks my heart apart because it's so not true.

Right. There's many factors that are really against us when it comes to clean eating, right? Like it's, we know what to do, we know how to eat whole real foods and hopefully listen to our body about what works and what doesn't. And you know, we gotta hydrate and we gotta sleep and move our body. Like we know what to do, but it's that, why aren't we actually doing it?

Peace that, I love that you asked that, Molly, cuz it's so, it can be really eyeopening, so. In the scope of sugar, having this awareness for you around what are the biggest factors, keeping you hooked is a really important place to start on your whole journey. This is before even trying to give up sugar, before any of that, really having an understanding and awareness, deep awareness of what biggest culprits are, are holding you back.

So some of the biggest areas, and this. , all of them. But these are the biggest ones that I see. Number one, and I kind of split these into two categories. So there's the physical and then there's the, the mental, emotional, energetic pieces. Okay? So physically we're working against a lot because our brain just loves sugar.

Our gut loves sugar. So when we're eating, We're getting that hit in our brain. The dopamine centers are like, yes, party, give me more, gimme more, gimme more. Our gut bacteria is growing and, and taking over and calling, feed me, feed me more sugar. So we really are in this place where most of us have been overdosing on sugar, whether intentionally or accidentally for our whole lives, and very real.

These physical responses and these cellular pieces that are showing up for us is really difficult. , it's difficult, right? We've got all of these different voices and all the cells in our body yelling, eat the cookie . So we need to acknowledge like that's, that's a very real challenge, right? And it's a big part why so many have have a challenge in getting off sugar in that as well.

There's a lot of us out there, and I was one of these as well that just literally had no idea how to eat without sugar. Mm. It had never been off my. , like, how do I make a meal that doesn't include white pasta and bread? Like what are you crazy? Yeah. Right. So how do I actually eat? And that could be a big stumbling block for a lot of people actually learning how to cook, right?

Learning how to combine whole real food ingredients and make your own meal, you know, make it taste good with spices and, and different things. So that's a really big factor as well, that I think a lot of people forget that there's those pieces kind of working against us.  and on the other side of things, right, we have this huge societal pressure.

Huge sugar is everywhere. It's in everything. It's at every occasion. It's how you relate with people. It's how you show love with people. It's how you celebrate things. You can't get through Christmas without sugar or a birthday without sugar, or a Friday night without sugar. It is so ingrained in the habits and the culture of our society in North America and Europe in a lot of westernized cultures.

you know, I think most countries around the world, right? Yeah. They have their own versions of it, right? Yeah. So it's, it's everywhere, right? Sugar is love. A sugar is connection and comfort, and it has all of these deep meanings that, you know, on a societal platform make it really difficult to get off, right?

We are fighting against the green when we decide, or you decide.  to stop eating sugar or to start eating healthy. Right. Or to start prioritizing your sleep. Yes. Like I'm the one at the party and I know you and I have joked about that. Like I'm out of there at nine o'clock cuz I'm going to bed.  like, bye

Yeah. Well, and I'm so glad that you're speaking about that. I was thinking that as you were saying this, the cultural societal piece is that I really look to you as a leader in this area of being able to create workable boundaries for yourself, but in a graceful way, which is I think forever, a bit of an art form for many of.

Certainly this applies for, to your point, bridging it to sleep, seeing how to, you know, set something and prioritize an area of your life and do it no matter what other people are doing. You know, we talk about sleep leadership in our kind of courses and what have you, and kind of that personal responsibility and accountability and it sounds like you're finding that and creating that for people with sugar and how to not be, think of yourself as like the weirdo.

Opting out of the fun ritual or you know, Nana made the cookies for Christmas or whatever, and , how do we, you know, kind of navigate those social issues? And so do you feel like this can be trained and learned, or is it just like an innate gift  that some people have, what's there? Yeah, I love that, uh, you know, Yeah, I think it does.

Like I do feel like when I, when you ask me that question and I think about myself, I feel like there is a lot of my personality that does support that. Like I'm kind of, I'm okay being the black sheep. Sure. Like I'm in a way, and at the same time I still have the, like that primitive part of me that needs to be liked.

Right. And wants the people pleased and wants to be a part of the group. And yeah. So I've got kind of both going on, but you know,  in the healing work that I've done in my life and with food over the last six years, I've gotten so much more confident in who I am and what's important to me. And more and more like other people's opinions don't bother me.

Mm-hmm. . And that really helps, right? We do have to kind of be willing to be a bit of a rebel. And I know a lot of you out there who maybe introverts are really struggle with that. Like it is a journey, right? And it's one step after another, and learning to set those boundaries. Ultimately taking a hard look at where are your people pleasing in your life?

Understanding that it is a biological survival mechanism to have people like you and starting to find proof and starting to change those neuro pathways in your brain so that you can understand that you know you're worth and your value don't matter what other people think of you. Right. I love that saying.

And I use this and I remind myself of this mantra when I get a nasty comment online or, yeah, these things come up, right? Is other people's opinion of me is none of my business. Mm-hmm. , I love that saying, and I forget who, who originally said that, but it's not me. But it's so good, right? Like other people's opinion of me is none of my business.

So when you.  when you start, yeah. Getting into this and navigating the tricky social situations, you do have to arm yourself and you absolutely can train yourself. I have a lot of these conversations with my clients, like the words that we can use, the boundaries we can set, the physical places we can set ourselves up with the people we can avoid while we're not strong enough to hang out with them.

Right? If you have someone in your life that is a major cookie pusher, if it's grandma, Right. Maybe you need to only hang out with grandma on Zoom for a couple weeks, right? Or like that might not, that might not work. But you know, there are certain people, like maybe it's a friend, you could say, you know, I'm just really busy this month.

Maybe you're like going through getting strong with getting off sugar, right? Or going through a detox and you know that you just can't handle the extra temptation. It's okay to set that boundary of not being with those people for a month or, you know, whatever you need. If they're not gonna support you, obviously there's conversations you need to have.

There's, there's a lot of nuances and it's very individual specific, but we can absolutely learn a lot of those skills and I think it becomes so much easier over time. The more you become committed to your health journey, whether it's setting those boundaries with sleep or with food and sugar or in other areas of your life, it becomes.

Like, it just becomes easier and easier. Right. And the people around you learn to respect that. Right. And if they don't, goodbye . Right. Goodbye. I love you. Goodbye. Yeah. But like, if they don't, right. I mean, it, it really does, um, help you, and this is kind of a side tangent, but it's really helped me understand who are actually there to show up for me in my life.

Who actually wants me to succeed and who doesn't. Yeah. And I've had to make some hard. Right. With some people that are no longer serving me. And you know, that sounds brutal, but it was such an act of self-love and it was not done viciously or mean. Yeah. It was just a natural shift to have people who get it and support me and are okay when I leave and go to bed at nine o'clock.

Right.  at the party. Yeah. Or I don't eat the cookie. They're not gonna force me to, you know, and they're gonna respect that. . You know, having those people is really, really important. Absolutely, and I like that you also speak to it too, in that there might be a muscle building period of time for ourselves where it's not to say that it has to necessarily be forever.

Maybe not cutting Nana out of the . No, no, no. Cutting her out forever, but. You know, just for a little period of time, taking that time for ourselves until we get stronger, until we build that muscle just a bit, that could be a potential path for people to explore in many areas. From a human behavior perspective, I think that people, we think of that as being very normal when it comes to say, alcoholism and taking some time to, you wouldn't necessarily go into a bar when you are just starting out with a 12 step program or what have you.

There's certain things that just sort of make. And I think we could be really putting this in the realm of life design and really designing our life in a way that fits for us. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I wanna come back to like the earlier question, cuz there was one other thing that I really wanted. Oh, my five questions really important.

Yeah, I'm coming back. I told you I wasn't gonna forget your questions, . Um, so the other really big piece that I, and I, I saved this for last cuz I think it's the biggest and the most important that's really causing us to. Have a hard time, you know, kicking sugar and staying off sugar is the emotional, mental pieces.

Yeah, so this is what I just blanket statement, this is the inner work, but what I've seen with my clients is this is the biggest area that everybody avoids because it's difficult and it takes time and it's painful, but we must begin to look at the innermost workings and patterns of our subconscious in terms of why we're actually using.

because when we, the physical piece that I talked about is a very real challenge, very real. But when we get sugar out of our body, we start to notice that's not the only reason we're addicted to sugar. Mm-hmm. , or we're hooked on sugar, or we're late night snacking. It's actually, in my opinion, a very small piece.

And this is why so many women that I work with, and I don't know if you've had this experience or anyone that you've worked with, Molly, is, you know, they'll go off sugar, eat clean, right. Go on a cleanse or a diet for 30 days or 60 days. Yeah. And then they're feeling great and they're like, oh my. I am gonna be amazing forever, and my health is turned around and I'm sleeping.

Amazing. And then something happens, right? Yeah. They lose their job or pandemic hits or it's Friday night and there's a cookie. Yes. And then there's a box of cookies. And then before you know it, you're binging again and you're feeling so ashamed of yourself and you're just back in the hole. So there's this yo-yoing that went on, and what I've identified is it's because most people completely ignore actually uncovering the root causes.

So the biggest ones there being emotional.  and I'd say our belief systems as well, you know, a lot of people believe and how we actually view ourselves. So a lot of us have this identity of, you know, I'm lazy, or I'm just an unhealthy eater. Or we have these sort of labels that we've put on ourselves that don't support long-term health.

So we actually have to go in and rewire like the way we think about ourselves and the way that we believe, right? Do we believe. Eating healthy. Healthy is boring, right? Do we believe that cooking is a waste of time? A lot of my clients have that one, right? Or that expressing emotions is not safe and we have to relearn or even just learn cuz we've never been taught the tools to actually manage our emotions.

Cuz I think most of us, especially us women, 99% of the time we're reaching for food for an emotional reason. , whether it's to celebrate or to comfort and really starting to get clear on those patterns for yourself and where they're coming from are absolutely key. And these are some of the biggest challenges, like coming back to that first question.

This is, I'd say the biggest challenge is the really emotional, mental pieces that are at the root of calling us to. To eat sugar and calling us when something difficult happens cuz we're human beings living a human existence and difficult things happen all the time. And if we don't accept that  and ride the wave and learn the tools to ride the wave, we are always gonna find ourselves, you know, face deep in a bowl of ice cream or cookies, right?

And then back in that old cycle again. So getting off of that cycle and actually creating. A lifestyle change, whether it's with sleep or with sugar, or with food. I mean, we have to start looking at some of those, like those deeper pieces, right? The beliefs about ourselves, right? Oh, I'm a lame human being.

If I go to bed, if I leave the party at nine and no one's gonna like me, right? Like if those beliefs are really there, You're not gonna be leaving the party, you're gonna force yourself to stay till midnight and then you're gonna have a crappy sleep and then regret it in the morning. So we can do a lot with our mind and our emotions, and I think that's, that's really important to say.

There's obviously so much in that, but that's just the quick planting of the seed for all of you to notice that that's obviously working against us as well and why it could be so difficult to get off the stuff. Yeah. Well actually I think to go deeper on that, and I think also enlighten us onto how you're managing this from someone that has been to those lows with your sleep and now has really gained this level of mastery in this area.

So we ask. , each person. Four questions. And I think it really goes into this topic of the psychological piece, because the first question is, what does your nightly sleep routine look like? And I'd also like to have that asterisk for you of what does that look like as it relates to food? Because we have so many people that are struggling with nighttime eating, or they start snacking, or maybe their food, their main meal was one that had that.

The highs and then the crash, and now they're ravenous. And so a lot of that cycle then seems to feed into their ability to both fall asleep with ease and stay asleep. So just curious if in your nightly routine we might see the element around sugar or, or how you're managing that so that we can learn something there too.

Yeah. Yeah. That's such a good question. Uh, I absolutely love that and I'll be like, full disclosure, honest. Yeah. I am like all over the map with my night routine . Okay. Over the map experimentation galore, all rightm. So I'm, so, yeah. And you know what? It's taken me a lot of time to be okay with that. Yeah.

I'm someone who does need that flexibility and flow. Sure. But for the most part, you know, I. You know, I'm going to bed like between nine and 10. That's my optimal time. Walking back from that. I, I love reading in bed. My husband and I do work at, and we're not perfect at this, you know, shutting the TV off.

Yeah. Shutting the screens off. I definitely don't work in the evenings. Right. Unless it's like something, something huge. I've hit that boundary pretty, I think I was forced to hit that boundary cuz my brain kind of shuts off at five, so I shut off at five. . Yeah. , but the Netflix comes in. So sometimes we will watch a movie and then we'll like do our wine down, you know, brush our teeth.

We have red light bulbs on our nightstands, which is an awesome support. And just like dimming the lights at night. And then in terms of food, again, not perfect, and this is really important and I wanna speak really candidly here because. So many women might see me or hear experts, um, talking about this, thinking, well, they've just got all figured out and they're totally perfect in all of their routines.

And I think that that level of perfectionism is actually, it's actually not supporting any of us because we're human beings. And I still sometimes late night snack, emotional eat, like sometimes that comes up for me, but for the most part, Yeah, I like, you know, I don't eat after dinner. I dabble with like intermittent fasting.

So depending on the day of the week, my last meal might be at three or it might be at six or seven. Like regular mealtime. Yeah. And then I don't eat anything after that. And you know, my meals are, are for the most part, you know, nourishing, healthy, you know, protein, fats, you know, some complex carbohydrates and good stuff.

So that's usually like my cutoff time, depending on, on the day and my schedule. Sometimes I'm hooked up until five and I can't eat before that. So yeah, that kind of. On the day of the week and then my evenings, you know, I strive too. Sometimes we'll go out for a walk now that when the weather's nice or read a book or you know, go and hang out with friends.

We also, I forgot about this cuz this is a big part. If you ask me this in like a month, this would be top of mind. And my evening routine is our sauna. Ah. So, because it's been the summer. , I've completely forgotten about it cuz we're not really using it. Sure, yeah. Um, it's so hot that I'm like, I don't wanna go in the sauna.

But last year we bought a wood burning barrel, cedar sauna that we have outside. It is like been the best investment for my soul, for my body, for everything. And that's really a big part of our night routine. We'll go spend like a good hour in there. Sometimes. A little too, a bit too long. . Yeah. I'm like, oh my gosh, here comes the headache.

I'm like pounding electro. But still, so we've got the sauna and the cold plunge situation. That is a big part of our like fall, winter, spring routine when it's not 30 degrees out, , . And that like really sets up for a good sleep except for the fact that I hydrate so much after that. I wake up to have to to pee.

Yes. So I can be a dance to get that straight. And one, I really appreciate you kind of presenting this humanity aspect on there is variability and anyone that says, oh well I. And that and exactly at this time is likely omitting things or just maybe not being honest to themselves. So I do think that's super important to share that life is dynamic and even.

If you're looking from an ancestral perspective, there was meant to be this variety in the seasons. And to your point around, you do a few different things in the summer than you do in the winter, and maybe the timing is a little bit different cuz the sun's out later and all the things, there's a lot of variety there.

So being able to be one that can shift in alignment with those things and make all of that workable and work in their favor is fantastic. So appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. And then, , what might we see in your morning routine and how would that kind of potentially lead into our sleep results? Yeah, yeah, of course.

So again, my mornings are all over the place. , . But you know what? It really does seasonally change, right? And emotionally change. Like I'm going through some difficult things this week at the time of recording. Mm-hmm.  and my mornings. Been really scattered because I've just been emotionally dealing with stuff.

So, but usually my mornings and I've gotten really good at this, like my first hour or two are for me. So I'm not diving in, I'm not checking my phone right away. Again, not perfect at that. There are definitely days when I do that and I'm like, oh. Darn. That's why I don't do that, because it's not a really good place to start.

So I, I do really, you know, need to start the day with me and my thoughts myself, so it'll vary. You know, I'll, I'll meditate lately in the spring and summer. I've really just loved going outside barefoot and standing in my garden every morning and I just like, yay. Yeah. Sometimes I'll bring my cat with me and we'll just like, hang out in the garden.

I mean, I'll have my, always have a good liter of water, a lemon, warm lemon water in the morning. I pound that. That's like the first thing I do when I get. Drink that, get outside, get the light in my eyes. Right. Which we know is so important to set us up for good sleep. Yes. Right. Waking my body up. And then I'll do usually some sort of movement, whether it's a walk or some yoga, or like this morning I went for a run in the park nearby and went for a swim in the river.

So I'll just engage in nature and be with myself, move my body, you know, wake up my body in that way, and then I'll have. And then I, a blood sugar balancing breakfast full of protein and usually eggs, avocado, like that's my go-to. That's great. You know, kinda the gist of it. In the morning and in the winter, I'll be more like, here in my office, I have my altar here, I'll meditate, do yoga, and it's really hard to get out when it's raining and freezing cold and dark in the winter.

Sure. Yeah. Winter. . Okay, got it. Well, one, I love that connection to nature and getting in the, the river and all those things. That's fantastic to hear and love that you're getting that sunlight too. So all of those really are great. And to your point around the changes in the season and kind of setting up life to support those differences in a powerful way.

So that's really fantastic. And what might we see in your environment? So you are on your nightstand or even proverbial nightstand with apps or ga. Or ambiance, anything there. Yeah, the ambiance. Candlelight chandeliers. . I love candles. I love candles. I actually do, I did bring out my candle again. So actually I do have a candle on my nightstand currently.

I brought that out a couple days ago. Cause I love nice, like we have our red light bulbs in our nightstands, and then sometimes I just want a little bit extra like, Brightness to read my book. Sometimes I'm like, yeah. Oh my God, how old are my eyes? Like, I can't see this. . Yes, I'll, I'll turn the candle on.

So I have that. I also, and I'm so not using this, but it's on my nightstand. I have one of those signal blocking bags to put my phone in. Oh, great. Yeah. Cause I, yeah, so I do use my phone for an alarm.  and I turn it on an airplane. I actually hate having my phone in the bedroom. I don't think it should be in the bedroom, but I haven't figured out another solution yet, so, so I got that bag and maybe this conversation will inspire me to use it again.

I don't know, I'm just being lazy, but it's on my nightstand, . I also have a couple books that, you know, I'm working through. I have like,  my lip chop for, you know, keeping hydrated in the night. And then, you know, we've got like blackout curtains. I have my night mask as well cuz here in the, like spring and summer, you know, it's often light when I go to bed and light when I wake up.

So I need the night mask just to keep it extra dark. And um, you know, we've also put in some effort to, to have like, You know, nice sheets. Last year I bought organic cotton sheets. It was like such a frivolous expense, but so important. Yes. And I love them. Like, I just feel like, oh, there's no chemicals seeping into me as I sleep.

So that's really nice. And then obviously with the seasonal change, we've changed up our blankets, right? We don't wanna be too hot while we sleep. I cannot be too hot while I sleep. . So, you know, we have lighter blankets on now in the summer. Yeah. Now that it's summer. And really just try to keep the room cool.

Keep it dark, and do the best that we can, you know, with great with those things. Yeah. So in that, what would you say out of all these things that you explored, both certainly with sugar and your meal timing and all these things, um, as it then relates to sleep, what would you say has made the biggest change in your sleep game?

Or maybe biggest aha moment? I didn't mean to make that a leading question. Doesn't necessarily have to involve. Do you see anything that really stands out for you of really meeting the difference with your sleep manage? Yeah, well, I guess it has to be sugar. No, . I know I kinda, at first was setting it up like that and I didn't mean No, no, it, I guess one, yeah, that is a big one.

And there's, there's actually a couple. Can I share a couple? Yes, please. Okay. Yeah. Okay. There's a couple, so for sure. It was like the late night snacking. The sugar, the ice cream, the treats, the snacks at late at night, getting rid of those because my body, you know, I didn't need them. You know, I don't need food after dinner.

If you're eating actual nutrients, you don't actually need food. There's something else going on there. Yes. So once I started working through emotional eating and, and all those pieces, and not eating after dinner. That really made a huge difference. Not hydrating, too close to bed as well. Mm-hmm. , right?

Like when we sauna we do this and it just like, I wake up to pee and, and that's not the best. Yeah. It's not the end of the world. I can get back to sleep really easily. So it's all good. And then, you know, I would also, with that alcohol. We have to talk about alcohol here, right? Because that's also sugar.

But of sugar, yes. A clear wine. And I know you've had people talking about alcohol and how that affects our sleep and especially drinking too close to bed. So yeah. Um, things like coffee and alcohol, you know, cutting those off. You know, I'm a big fan of day drinking because  Yes. Morning, right? Cause your body actually has still to manage those before sleep.

So Yeah. You heard it. You have permission to have a mimosa  if you're gonna have a drink , but make the orange juice yourself so that it's not loaded with extra sugar.  amazing. So those things, just paying attention right to, you know, I don't drink coffee late in the afternoon, like, have my coffee in the morning and, and those sorts of things made a really big difference.

And then the last thing that. You know, and I'd say this is even more important than the sugar and food. For me, it was the mental support that I gave myself to fall asleep and to stay asleep was actually at the end of every workday. I always, always, always plan my next day in advance. Mm. Like I cannot shut off.

It not only helps me shut off, you know, and turn off work and be more present in the evening, you know, to be with friends and family or you know, myself. But it also helps me sleep. Right. A lot of times for me it was, it was really like laying there thinking about all the things I need to do tomorrow or that I might be forgetting.

So the habit that I've gotten into of like really planning, like I'll write down the appointments. I have my to-do lists, like what are the things that I need to get done tomorrow? And then I find for me, I can just. Turn my brain off and sleep right? So that's been a big one cuz I would lay there and ruminate or wake up in the middle of the night and go, oh no, I'm forgetting something important.

So that just never happens. I can really let that go and trust that I can get up in the morning. I know what time I need to get up to make my first call and give myself the time that I need, and it just has helped me rest so much easier. , so great. And I know you're a big proponent of Inbox zero that you've been doing that for quite some time, right?

I mean, these things, and I'm not meaning to kind of overly simplify things for the listener, it's not as if like when we're talking about improving our sleep, I'm not trying to say that having inbox zero, not having Inbox zero is gonna make the difference with your sleep, and yet I think it's all in that same world.

What you're speaking to, which is that sense of having things handled and workability in your life. And the more open loops that we have that are mounting, those can certainly find their way insidiously into our peace of mind to be able to fall asleep. So it seems like you've gained some mastery in that area from my understanding.

Mastery Plus, you know, a little bit  work in progress. So true. How those things for me, I really notice and everybody's different. Of course. Yeah. I really notice that those loose ends and those things weighed so much on me and caused me so much stress and worry and anxiety. And then I'm.  riddled with these like heavy emotions.

And then I wanna just binge on, you know, wine and ice cream. Yeah. And then, you know, I'm laying there awake because I'm on the sugar high and I'm ruminating over, oh my gosh. All the emails that I have late on responding to. And so just like this, Total like cycle that we can get into that. You know, obviously it takes a lot of time and practice to really set up right those boundaries and that those practices, and again, I'm not perfect.

No. My inbox is not always at zero , but usually at the end of the day, there's no more than 10 emails there. And they've all been read and dealt with. I'm just waiting for things. It's just my, yeah, my system. Right? Yeah. But we all have different system and some people, I know people who have.  like my sister-in-law, you look at her phone, she's got the little red like notification she has over like 4,000 unread emails.

And I look at that and I have like a panic attack, which I know she care less. Yeah, it doesn't bother her at all. So I know there are people who like, who don't. Yes. Don't get caught up in that. Right. But I'm not that person. . Yes, same. No, I feel you. Oh my goodness. Well, I am sure that people listening are resonating with what you're sharing, and also just that I'm left with that piece of your ability to have that sense of humanity, that we all have the ups and the downs and not making us.

Bad or wrong in these different things and kind of having, giving that support for people on their journey. So I'm sure people are gonna wanna know how can they follow you? What are the things that are going on in your world? How can, and if they are really struggling, how could they work with you? . Yeah, I love it.

I would love to hear from everybody come. I mean, I just wanna keep talking about this stuff forever. Yes. I would love to connect with you. So actually this September I'm hosting a really awesome free three day live training called the Sugar Freedom Bootcamp, where I'm gonna be diving in to really deep into my unique strategy in the three pillars that I use to actually help.

Women break free from the cravings and this addiction and desire to use food, and we're gonna dive into some of the deeper pieces and help you heal through that. So come, definitely come and get registered for that. Um, you can find the link on my website or maybe in the show notes below. Yes, I think Molly has a link as well.

Yes. And to come and register. And of course you can find some other free resources and downloads and information about how to work with me on my website, which is danielle dame.com and I'm on Instagram. I'm even on TikTok. Um, you can find me, Danielle Dame over there and come check out some of the fun things I'm creating.

I've, I've got lots of fun things in store that I'm sharing over there this September. And, uh, would love to have you come and join me and, and, uh, connect. Amazing. Ah, well thank you so much for taking the time. I know you, when you do kind of multi-day trainings like this and you've put together your group programs, I know you as someone that does not just kind of wing things.

I know you prepare and you put things in place well in advance. So thank you for taking the time to be on here today to discuss more about these topics and how they relate to sleep. So thank you so much and for the work that you're doing on the world, really, really just acknowledge. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. You know, behind the scenes, I've been working for like months at planning this, coming training. It's gonna be incredible. There are so many people that put together, you know, courses and programs and I know it's kind of just like, oh, let's just sell it before we even think about what we're putting in.

And people do these things and you are not one of those people. So really hat tip to you and all the work that I know you put in and making sure that it's a great experience for. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. And I, I did forget to mention this too, and a huge shout out to all of your listeners to come and listen to you over on my podcast.

Yeah. So the Beyond Sugar Freedom Podcast, you can definitely come and like soak in some more of what I'm talking about here over there if you're, if you're wanting to dive in a bit deeper and listen to Molly's episode. I can't remember the episode number, but it's there. It was a couple months ago. It's there.

This was amazing. Totally. Yes. Oh, we had a great time. Amazing. Well, more to come. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and just appreciate. Thanks for having me. Thank you. You've been listening to The Sleep Is A Skill Podcast, the number one podcast for people who wanna take their sleep skills to the next level.

Every Monday, I send out something that I call Mollie's Monday Obsessions containing everything that I'm obsessing over in the world of sleep. Head on over to sleep as a skill.com to sign up.

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